AKs flop decision

[Gabe]

i don't think raising is as bad as everyone says. actually, i kind of like it.

folding is crazy.

[benwood]

My automatic non-think play would be to raise here,but it's better to just call,hoping to get a raise in on the turn,imo.

[n.s.]

I think a raise is good if you are very sure that it'll allow you to take a free card on the turn (or that a turn donk after your raise will mean that you are drawing dead and you can fold).

Otherwise I'd just call.

[william288]

i think flop raise is quite bad. we can not achieve anything.
pot offers 10:1 after our raise. according to my experience, most players will call any 2 if pot offers better than 8:1. we can not thin field.
our raise is also not for value. we are likely behind. majority of time, we need to showdown best hands to win according to pf action. At least the co will look us up.
intention to take free card is also incorrect imo.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think raising is as bad as everyone says. actually, i kind of like it.

folding is crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe, can you lay out some of the benefits you think raising might have?

And yes, folding didn't really cross my mind much. This decision was between calling and raising.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]

intention to take free card is also incorrect imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain? If we call the flop bet and one more player comes along, then I think we'd have to call a turn bet getting nearly 11:1 with overcards, and even more so if the turn is a Q or J (giving us a gutshot). If we are going to call a turn bet, why not save half a bet with a free card play? I suppose that when the turn brings a diamond we'd wish we just saved that SB...

Not that I'm saying that going for a free card here is correct (I think it's pretty player-dependant), I just think that it's correct if we are confident that it'll work.

[thirddan]

goober,

i don't see a free card play working here often...when we get donked into i think its gonna be with the intent to 3bet...remember that we cold capped this preflop and we are still getting bet into, not even sure if JJ/QQ is 3betting us here, so when we get 3bet i think we are pretty [censored], rather see the turn as cheap as possible...

[william288]

the reason i think flop raising for free card is incorrect because it's difficult for us to get a free card. too many cards will make our free card intention void.

if flush, q, j, or small cards fall on turn, we are likely being betted into instead of getting a free card.

according to pf action and the description, ep/co are totally unpredictable.

[andyfox]

At this point, I want to give myself the best possible chance to win the pot. By raising, you might lose a player or two, you will likely see two more cards for "free," and you might even have the best hand. Heck, even though it's Commerce, you might even get a better hand to fold, as they'll surely put you on a big pocket pair.

I agree with Gabe (and you) that folding is crazy. By just calling, you're going to be guessing a lot more on the turn too. If you raise here, and now get bet into on the turn, that turn bet will carry a lot more weight.

[daveT]

With so many callers in the pot on this somewhat drawy board, I would like to call and see the turn before I decide on further action. There is no point jamming up for someone elses fd. Also, you are not protecting your hand at all here. If you call, and raise the turn if you can win with showdown merits, you can go ahead and raise, because at this point you would be offering less odds.

Also, the CO bet may mean something like: I can beat this board, but if I had two diamond overs, I would be betting here.

I don't think that this kind of game is meritous to the free-card play. Apparently people are here to gamble, and that means tripping over themselves to build a nice payday.