help me become a better arguer/negotiater

[Apathy]

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I've come to realize that I am really bad at this and often end up with the short end of the stick. I've seen OOT advice for bargaining before but things like "be firm" I don't really know what exactly that means.

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No your not your great at arguing forget about all this stuff, you get exactly what you deserve and more all the time.

[NLSoldier]

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(1) Always make the other person name the first number
(2) Have a walking-away price in your mind well before you start the negotiations
(3) Focus on perceived value, not just cost when selling an item
(4) Don't sell yourself out too cheap. People -will- pay for a service they find to be the best.

I'd recommend checking out Doug Hall's 'Jump Start your Business Brain' for ideas on common business mistakes and myths.

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I was taught that number 1 is basically a myth and as long as you have a good grasp of your alternatives and such, you should be the one to name the first number as an anchoring point.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
(1) Always make the other person name the first number
(2) Have a walking-away price in your mind well before you start the negotiations
(3) Focus on perceived value, not just cost when selling an item
(4) Don't sell yourself out too cheap. People -will- pay for a service they find to be the best.

I'd recommend checking out Doug Hall's 'Jump Start your Business Brain' for ideas on common business mistakes and myths.

[/ QUOTE ]

This first one is a good example of common advice that doesn't do much for me. I'll set what I believe to be fair price for something.

Me: I see your offering that for $x dollars. Thats a little more than I want to pay for that. Can you make it $x minus 10 bucks.
Him: Sorry. Thats what I'm selling it at.
Me: ya ok. later.

Then I go home and cry myself to sleep.

[guids]

Well, imo, arguing is pretty black and white, and the eprson who is right can usualyl demonstrate so within a couple minutes, and when it does happen to enter a gray area, it then just becomes an exercise of futility, or in other words its pointless to argue, so I dont. Negotiating is a whole different beast, you have to change your persona, to get what you want, and how you change depends on who you are dealing with. I have a great book, I cant remember the exact name, but it basically takes the Art of War and dumbs it down/explains some fo the verses etc, also Machiavelli, but not the prince, read Discourses on Livy.

[Blarg]

Heh. That's goes well with your saying you start at a fair price. I think you have to know your audience. Many people expect a haggle, and probably even know what a fair price is. If you come in right away with a fair price, with this type, they'll figure that's more than you really need to get to an agreement with them. They will be dead set against giving you that "fair price," assuming it's not fair at all, but just a starting point for negotiations, rather than an end point. Kind of a probe.

[Riverman]

This brings up an interesting question. Why is the sporting-event on-site ticket market monopolized by black people?

[kyleb]

Surprisingly enough, The Poker MBA is a good book about negotiating and business concepts in general. I recommend it.

[kyleb]

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This brings up an interesting question. Why is the sporting-event on-site ticket market monopolized by black people?

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It isn't, really. I know a lot of white people in Seattle that specialize in selling last-minute Mariners' tickets.

[Scotch78]

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Arguing is more about being right,

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No, expert arguing is about making the other guy wrong.

Scott

[Evan]

Watch Thank You For Smoking. There's a pretty sweet scene where the main character teaches his son how to debate.