Does "ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraqis"

[lozen]

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer? I am against the death penalty and against the war in Iraq, but I'm not shedding a tear over Saddam's execution. We all know that he was the scum of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes but are you not there to restore freedom and democracy.

Which should include a fair trial. Also by your point than Bush should hang too

[Bobbo539]

Its a FRICKIN war, people die in war, im not sure if you realized this. Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people for political stability, the US, Britian, and many others went into Iraq to depose of Saddam, cut his ties with terrorist orginizations, rid him of or prevent him from gainining Nuclear Weapons, and create a democracy in the Middle East.

Its one thing to be against the war, its another thing to be a partisan idiot

[tomdemaine]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a FRICKIN war, people die in war, im not sure if you realized this. Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of people for political stability, the US, Britian, and many others went into Iraq to depose of Saddam, cut his ties with terrorist orginizations, rid him of or prevent him from gainining Nuclear Weapons, and create a democracy in the Middle East.

Its one thing to be against the war, its another thing to be a partisan idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that a yes or a no?

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer? I am against the death penalty and against the war in Iraq, but I'm not shedding a tear over Saddam's execution. We all know that he was the scum of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without a free and fair trial and a good documented decord we cannot be sure. That is if you believe in the innocent until proven guilty axiom -- and believe in it as a bedrock principle.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
But do you really doubt that Saddam was a mass murderer?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't, but that wasn't the question. His absurd trial only increases the division in Iraq and makes it a lot easier for others to argue that he wasn't a mass murderer than a proper invesitgation and trial would have.

[boracay]

against death penalty, but law is the law and crime is the crime. under the pressure of media serving the interests of politics and corporate power it's difficult to get the right picture.

" If they do it it's terrorism, if we do it, it's fighting for freedom. "
a U.S. Ambassador in Central America in the 1980s, asked to explain how such U.S. actions as the mining of Nicaragua's harbors and bombing of airports differed from the acts of terrorism that the U.S. condemned around the world

one more:
" [The Laos operation] is something of which we can be proud as Americans.
It has involved virtually no American casualties. What we are getting for our money there ... is, I think, to use the old phrase, very cost effective."
U. Alexis Johnson, US Under Secretary of State in 1971 about American carpet-bombing of Laos which killed hundreds-of-thousands of civilians

[Money2Burn]

[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[lozen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder.

How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope

[tomdemaine]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I say I don't think anyone should be hung but here are your options.

1. Don't punish Saddam

2. Punish all people who give orders that they know will cause the deaths of innocent people.

3. Admit that that isn't the real reason you are killing Saddam.

4. Admit that you're a hypocrite.

5. Come up with a credible actual tangible difference between those innocents who died because of Saddam and those who died because of, for example Churchill or Roosevelt.
[ QUOTE ]

Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you built the bridge knowing full well that innocent people would die then yes you are responsible.

[Money2Burn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death?

You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No.

I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder.

How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope

[/ QUOTE ]

Building a shoddy bridge and building a bridge that you know will fail are different things to me.

When you say "If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge..." are you trying to imply that Bush purposely allowed the implementation of the war to be "shoddy"? If so, I don't see how Bush could possibly think he would benefit more from a war plan that results in the disaster that we have today than from one that is a sweeping success.