AA UTG beat by J3o (10x Raise by J3 Preflop)

[hockey coach]

I'm OK w/ the preflop play - his raise looks like a "punish the limpers" play from the big stack (maybe w/ a decent hand like a mid pair or big A) and is big enough to discourage callers behind especially the cutoff, I'm OK w/ the loose shortie tagging along, and it was a big enough raise to take away implied odds of his outflopping you. Plus, he's OOP and is likely to lead on a whiff or call you down w/ a weaker hand (per your read).

On the flop I raise to 2k to take away any drawing odds (in case his $100 was a block on a draw) and plan to shove the rest in on the turn unless he wants it in on the flop.

The shaking hands was a textbook Caro tell but I don't have enough live experience that I would have altered my play - I'd have bit too (for all I know maybe he thought his KK or QQ was good).

This was a good spot to try to double up - you just got unlucky.

[akashra]

Thanks for the comment..

Nice to see at least one that fits my view of the situation a little better.

The 2k Strong Flop bet makes sense to me (2/3 pot is a common bet size) and this loose chip leader could call that w/a lot of hands ( Pocket Pairs above or under jacks even.. or any AJ, KJ, QJ hand...JJ has me dominated of course, but unlikely, And I have him dominated on any other more probable hand..) With a flop like J, 3, 5 I just can't assume he has the best of it.. The shaking hands and small bet I didn't like.. but definetedly could be something like KK, QQ, etc.. But i wasn't giving up my aces or not thinking I had the best of it on that flop...

[h20man65]

[ QUOTE ]
if youre going to limp, you should be limping with the intention of raising. aa is a good hand. build a pot with it. once he raises 10xBB, dont be greedy. stick all your chips in.

good players make a lot of money off of people who decide to get "tricky" with aces preflop only to be unable to get away from them after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cnnot agree with this enough. You slit your own throat. MOVE IT IN. This is exactly what you wanted to happen, play back at you preflop. Deer in the headlights, run him down!

[stevepa]

If sb will almost always put out a decent bet on the flop, let him do it. Pushing almost certainly gets him to fold. If he'd raised less, then I'd agree you should probably reraise, but here it'll probably get heads up anyways. Call preflop, push the flop if he puts out a reasonable bet. With his 100 bet, I probably just play it like you did.

As for this:
[ QUOTE ]
good players make a lot of money off of people who decide to get "tricky" with aces preflop only to be unable to get away from them after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is true, except for when the player puts in a fifth of his stack preflop. Good players make money off of people who put in 1/50th of their stack preflop with AA and then go broke on the flop regardless. Here, a good player makes far more by "getting tricky" and letting his opponent fire on the flop as well.

Steve

[akashra]

..This was my original intent until I saw the amount he raised too, and made the assumption from past plays he had made - that'd he fairly heavily fight for the pot thereafter.. allowing me to push all in (after the assumed strong bet from him) on the flop..

The preflop raise was for 1/5th of my stack.. and blinds go up FAST.

[Black Aces 518]

The problem with waiting till the flop is it lets him fold hands that he's not folding preflop, such as AK, QQ-TT, etc.

If he has JJ and the flop is K-Q-7, you're screwed as far as getting the rest of the chips, but he's probably calling preflop.

[hockey coach]

UTG limp and then you reraise a significant overbet - he puts you on what here and calls w/ what here? So if he's donkish enough to call w/ TT he'll lead the flop. His overbet most likely was a punish the limpers - only way to get more $ is to call and let him lead out. If he had made a normal raise I'd reraise here but he made a 10BB raise (~2x pot). Let him hang himself.

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with waiting till the flop is it lets him fold hands that he's not folding preflop, such as AK, QQ-TT, etc.

If he has JJ and the flop is K-Q-7, you're screwed as far as getting the rest of the chips, but he's probably calling preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(This player has been very loose, Fish, Horrid.. And is also the current chipleader, and just watched him river an inside draw after calling an almost pot sized bet with nothing but the draw on the turn and an overcard two hands ago..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not too worried about him getting away from anything resembling a hand post-flop. I am worried about him folding J3o (or whatever garbage he's often raising with) preflop instead of putting out a big flop bet the 25/26 (or whatever) times he doesn't outflop you (or losing all the rest of his chips the 1/3 times he flops a J or 3).

Steve

[Black Aces 518]

You guys are right, I was forgetting that he was going to have the first bite, and will stab at most any flop representing. Thanks.

[mlagoo]

i dunno, i dont like limping with aces in the first place, because i dont really limp with any hands, so its suspicious.

and i agree, calling here preflop isnt terrible, and the flop is a no brainer. i guess its just the idea of.... someone thats making this thread in the first place is fairly new at poker, otherwise you would understand that theres no reason not to go broke on this flop everytime. and for me, for someone new to poker... just raise with your good hands, ya know? try to learn proper abc poker before you start trying to play fancy with big hands. i just notice so much with good players this insatiable desire to raise with your marginal hands and to slowplay all your good hands, and you really dont need to do that. and it annoys me when friends or people i wanna help play silly [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]