One that I didn't horribly botch, probably! - Page 2

aejones · #11 11-30-2006, 01:43 PM

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who anyone disagree with pushing the flop if u can put vilian on an overpair?

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villian does not have an overpair here

this is good DJ obv pretty standard and we should have QQ + here quite a bit I can't see much of anything he can call with, I mean J9 is/was a real possib ility but even THAT might fold and the three makes it so much less likely he's got quads but thats really the only hand that has us beat and can call

Eagles · #12 11-30-2006, 01:45 PM

I'm not that crazy over the turn, because I can't imagine villain folding anything here, I think your always getting called and almost always behind and sometimes dead. I mean the only hand he'd play like this and fold is j9

Big_Jim · #13 11-30-2006, 02:25 PM

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I can't imagine villain folding anything here

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Really??

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the only hand he'd play like this and fold is j9

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Especially 3 handed, his range for c/ring the flop is far wider than that, and should include at least AJ or so.

Eagles · #14 11-30-2006, 02:27 PM

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I can't imagine villain folding anything here

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Really??

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the only hand he'd play like this and fold is j9

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Especially 3 handed, his range for c/ring the flop is far wider than that, and should include at least AJ or so.

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Ooops didn't see three handed I'll repost when I'm not playing.

luckychewy · #15 11-30-2006, 04:41 PM

i would much prefer a flop 3-bet, having just called the flop i'm not crazy about the turn push because you have considerably less equity against jx, which figues to be his most likely hand. given stack i thnik we have enough fe to push, though.

duh · #16 11-30-2006, 05:01 PM

shove flop all day

Phoenix1010 · #17 11-30-2006, 05:04 PM

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shove flop all day

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aejones · #18 11-30-2006, 05:06 PM

shove flop feels not as good here imo

DJ Sensei · #19 11-30-2006, 05:11 PM

alright kids, its time for school.

lets take a look at his hand range here:

preflop, i raise 3handed, fish calls, and he overcalls. JJ and up are now out of his range. he's got a hand with potential, but not one big enough to squeeze.

on the flop, he c/r's. relative position would dictate such a move if he wants the fish in the pot, but the fish didn't oblige. so, he likes his hand here at least somewhat, as he'd rarely c/r such a flop out of position with air. we can put him on a set, 2 pair (only J9), maybe a big jack, or a draw of some sort. however, 99 is unlikely because i have a 9 also, JJ is unlikely because he didnt reraise preflop, so if he's got a set its most likely 33. also, many of his possible combo draws are blocked by my holdings, so his draws are going to be 8-9 outers (from his perspective).

3-betting this flop kinda sucks in my opinion, for a few reasons:
1) he won't fold many better hands
2) i'll often end up on the bad side of a 60/40 or worse "coinflip" with a better hand.
3) i've got position and there are still stacks behind, why not take advantage of it?

now the turn comes, pairing the 3, its a great card for me.
1) 33 is that much less likely now, and really theres only 1 combination each of 99 and 33 he could have for a winning boat/quads.
2) it counterfeits J9.

Now, given stack sizes, and the fact that i could easily shove here with AA-QQ, or a boat myself, he's gotta fold almost all of his range. If he makes a big call with AJ or something, well thats alright with me. such calls won't be profitable in the long run, and i still have outs.

aejones · #20 11-30-2006, 05:18 PM

DJ, I think I said all that incoherently earlier, but I'm very glad I'm on the same page as a player of your caliber. I agree with everything, but I think you should mention QT/T8 here. You have the ten of spades, so he can't have a combo draw, but no reason to think he can't have a straight draw. The turn board pair is awful for him, and I just wanted to add it to a list of hands that he's folding.

Also add not only do you have a nine, but it's prob in a squeezing range of him with a fish in between. I play QQ-AA the same too obv. This is a good case of 'i have a monster and there's no way he can call with anything probably not even top two now and if he does he's a douche and i have a won of outs'.