The heart of the matter: extradition

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

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Rather, the $64,000 question is how likely foreign governments are to cooperate with US extradition requests.

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It is my understanding that most extradition treaties require that the crime in question be considered a crime in both countries, correct? Under this notion, the extradition treaty between the UK and the USA does not apply.

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BTW, I think the WTO could wind up being quite important in all of this, and there's even some chance that it winds up being a relatively substantial international trade dispute.

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I wish that I could share your optimism. The WTO told the USA to get its IG laws in line with international standards, and the USA responded with an emphatic "[censored] You!" For years our country's government has all but ignored the WTO, so why would we start paying attention now?

I mean, really, does anyone expect the US Government to cave under threat of possible trade sanctions from Antigua?

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Drew:

The heart of the question is this: how likely is a company based in country XX to care that it is violating US law? If XX is the United Kingdom, then the answer is "a great deal", while if XX is Antigua, the answer is "not very much at all".

The WTO itself is not that important in the immediate term, except to the extent that the US' refsual to adhere to Antigua's existing complaint in the WTO will embolden Antigua and other small nations to ignore the US law. However, the WTO could become more important if the Department of Justice does something crazy, the US attempts to impose sanctions on a country like Costa Rica, or one of the companies based in a large nation decides to fight this.

[Jack Bando]

Unless I'm mistaken, the WTO's rules state they can impose fees/tariffs on members to balance damage done to another member. If they feel something costs Country A $1 Bil due to Country B's actions, they fine them over time to reimburse country A. But how well that'd work agaisnt the US is anyone's guess.

[Poker_Hoar]

I wrote this as a response yesterday. Sorry guys, but you live in the USA and don't get the news like we do here in Europe.

The UK will extradite faster than you can type PWNED.

This was a very high profile case and I assure you that the people in Gibraltar are VERY familiar with this.

Sorry for the negative.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13072006/34...n-journey.html

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

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If this is indeed the case and the US fails to abide by international law which we seem so fond of doing how will this effect this business?

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Make a list of the major poker rooms and divide them into big countries and small countries. Imagine that my thesis is right and that the big country sites ban US players, and the small country sites allow them. What will happen to the games? You can speculate about that as well as I can, but the likely answer is chaos in the near term with things settling down a bit in the medium term.

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Will we see most sites move to places like antigua?

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Yes, I believe that some countries will become "save-havens" for internet gambling, even more so than is already the case.

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Will the US begin to prosecute actual players?

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Not under this current legislation, IMO.

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Also in your opinion what kind of time frame are we looking at for major shake ups in the industry to occur such as sites blocking us customres etc?

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If PartyGaming follows 888's lead, then things will be very crazy very soon.

[ACPlayer]

Here is Wiki on extradition

Note the section:

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Generally, an extradition treaty requires that a country seeking extradition be able to show that:

* The relevant crime is sufficiently serious.
* There exists a prima facie case against the individual sought.
* The event in question qualifies as a crime in both countries.
* The extradited person can reasonably expect a fair trial in the recipient country.
* The likely penalty will be proportionate to the crime.


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If I was an officer of a potential target company I would be concerned about it, if I was a shareholder, I may say take the heat, that is why we are paying you.

Note that NY refused to extradite one of the recently arrested execs (bodog?) to LA. So tough to know if Britian will extradite to the US, I guess. Fair to say we know where Antigua stands.

[LearnedfromTV]

Does anyone have

- a breakdown of where sites are located?
- even better, informed opinions on how extradition-friendly those countries are?

[Kyle]

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Does anyone have

- a breakdown of where sites are located?
- even better, informed opinions on how extradition-friendly those countries are?

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this would be very helpful

[ACPlayer]

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I wrote this as a response yesterday. Sorry guys, but you live in the USA and don't get the news like we do here in Europe.

The UK will extradite faster than you can type PWNED.

This was a very high profile case and I assure you that the people in Gibraltar are VERY familiar with this.

Sorry for the negative.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/13072006/34...n-journey.html

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Perhaps it will be as fast as I can type PWNED.

However, your link appears to be a case where the crime is recognized by both sides of the atlantic. I wonder how the UK courts would consider (and, this is a court that decides and not politicians) a request for extradition for IG -- which is completely legal in the UK).

[Wools]

I just want to take a minute to thank you for providing all of this information and your analyses Nate. You, Berge, and Mr. K have all been excellent posters the past x weeks/months leading up to this and all three of you deserve to be praised. All of the information you share is greatly appreciated.

[Uglyowl]

Less customers (U.S. customers gone) would mean alot less tax revenue and job creation.

If England starts getting in the business of extradiction, I would bet most new sites would choose other countries to reside in and possibly existing ones moving.