NL200 -- Two QQ hands

[2Paul2]

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Okay I'm confused here, in hand 2 if we are just going to call pre-flop, what flop are we hoping to see (other than the obvious Q on the flop) where we will call bets? Are we hoping to get checked to and then make a bet? I kind of see where Pete is coming from here. If Villain's range is AA, KK, QQ and AK then should we fold preflop? That seems awfully tight, but why call if we will fold to a flop bet?

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We aren't always going to fold to a flop bet. Bar AdKdJd this just happens to be the worst possible flop for us against villains range.

If the flop is J73r then you will prolly have to call down(or fold to a 2nd barrel if you think villain won't bet turn without AA/KK).

Paul

[Caelallaiach]

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What's the 3-bet range for a typical 25/8 player OOP? If it's QQ+,AK then you're in bad shape.

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Even broadening the range of pairs, Hero doesn't fare much better. Hero's crushed by AA and KK (even more so if Villain has a diamond), by JJ and 99, and is only a slight favourite against TdTx and AdKx or AxKd or even AxQd.

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Aah okay, so the answer to my question is a flop without an A or K, not monotone, and preferably not 9,T,J either. So all low cards preferably?

e.g. if flop is T 5 2 rainbow, we just call down?

[mlagoo]

the thing about hand 2 is i was getting like 2:1 pf because of the COs call... meh, i dunno. to be honest i just didn't even consider folding QQ preflop in a 6max game to a 3bet. i obviously wasn't going to 4bet, but I have to believe that his range consists of more than AA-QQ, AK here.

i wonder if its worth mentioning that i play something like 30/22 in these games, although i'm not sure exactly what my stats were at that particular table. does that effect the decision in either direction? I hate it when people forget to include stuff in their OP, but here I am =/

[prayformojo]

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Okay I'm confused here, in hand 2 if we are just going to call pre-flop, what flop are we hoping to see (other than the obvious Q on the flop) where we will call bets? Are we hoping to get checked to and then make a bet? I kind of see where Pete is coming from here. If Villain's range is AA, KK, QQ and AK then should we fold preflop? That seems awfully tight, but why call if we will fold to a flop bet?

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I don't think we know enough about Villain to put him on that small a range. I'm calling this pre-flop because when I'm behind, I expect to score a big pot with a set, and when I'm ahead, my position will give me a significant advantage. In this case, I think we are ahead pre-flop a lot of the time.

However, the advantage granted by position is in the information it gives us. Here, Villain bets out on a semi-coordinated monotone flop. I now know that I either was not ahead pre-flop, and so am not ahead now, I was ahead pre-flop but I am now crushed, or I was ahead pre-flop and am ahead now, but my edge is quite small (at most roughly 57/40).

[mlagoo]

mojo -- you speaka da truth. i'm sold on the flop fold now.

[Caelallaiach]

Me too.

[los_toros]

Hand 1 is fine Hand 2 is not so great. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

With the Qd I don't go much further even if we're getting a sick price.