The Real Cause of Blackouts

[LadyWrestler]

Great post...but it will take long term thinkers to fully appreciate it.

[whiskeytown]

none of the claims made here apply to the Enron blackouts -
which was a prime example of price gouging, natural monoplisitic practices, and typical psychopathic behavior from a corporate entity more concerned with profits then with actually serving the public trust.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in620795.shtml

[ QUOTE ]
During California's rolling blackouts, when streets were lit only by head lights and families were trapped in elevators, Enron Energy traders laughed, reports CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales.

One trader is heard on tapes obtained by CBS News saying, "Just cut 'em off. They're so f----d. They should just bring back f-----g horses and carriages, f-----g lamps, f-----g kerosene lamps."

And when describing his reaction when a business owner complained about high energy prices, another trader is heard on tape saying, "I just looked at him. I said, 'Move.' (laughter) The guy was like horrified. I go, 'Look, don't take it the wrong way. Move. It isn't getting fixed anytime soon."

California's attempt to deregulate energy markets became a disaster for consumers when companies like Enron manipulated the West Cost power market and even shut down plants so they could drive up prices.

There was quick reaction in Washington to the Enron audiotapes first aired by CBS News last night, and the tapes have become part of the debate over the President's massive energy bill.

"People were talking about market manipulation. People were talking about schemes, people were making jokes," said U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.

"While the president would like to have an energy bill, I'd like to have an energy bill that protects consumers," said Cantwell.

Consumers like Grandma Millie, mentioned in one exchange recorded between two Enron employees.

Employee 1: "All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?

Employee 2: "Yeah, Grandma Millie man.

Employee 1: "Yeah, now she wants her f-----g money back for all the power you've charged right up, jammed right up her a—for f-----g $250 a megawatt hour."


[/ QUOTE ]

Watch "The Corporation" - Enron is not a bad apple - it is standard operating procedures for corporations -

you guys put way too much faith in the altrustic motives of the free market when time and time again the market is proven it cannot be trusted with the responsibility to regulate itself without seriously screwing over the American people.

They do business and enjoy the protections of our armies and our economy, they should be subject to regulations that prevent them from price gouging and screwing consumers -

and we, the people, don't want them screwing us over on important stuff like water and electricity, so yes, long live the public trust.

RB

[TomCollins]

Keep sticking it to the man, Russ.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the economists got involved ex post and declared that electrical power is a "public good," under the belief that private enterprise is not up to the job of providing the essentials of life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reality check: Power companies (gas/electric/other) are PUBLIC Companies. most are listed on the NYSE or other stock exchange. Heavily regulated, but still profit producing public companies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're confused. "Private enterprise" and "PUBLIC Comapnies" are not mutually exclusive. In the first sense, "private" = non-governmental and "public" = governmental. In the sense you're using, privately-held and publicly-held companies are both "private" (i.e. non-government-owned) enterprises.

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
none of the claims made here apply to the Enron blackouts -
which was a prime example of price gouging, natural monoplisitic practices, and typical psychopathic behavior from a corporate entity more concerned with profits then with actually serving the public trust.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in620795.shtml

[ QUOTE ]
During California's rolling blackouts, when streets were lit only by head lights and families were trapped in elevators, Enron Energy traders laughed, reports CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales.

One trader is heard on tapes obtained by CBS News saying, "Just cut 'em off. They're so f----d. They should just bring back f-----g horses and carriages, f-----g lamps, f-----g kerosene lamps."

And when describing his reaction when a business owner complained about high energy prices, another trader is heard on tape saying, "I just looked at him. I said, 'Move.' (laughter) The guy was like horrified. I go, 'Look, don't take it the wrong way. Move. It isn't getting fixed anytime soon."

California's attempt to deregulate energy markets became a disaster for consumers when companies like Enron manipulated the West Cost power market and even shut down plants so they could drive up prices.

There was quick reaction in Washington to the Enron audiotapes first aired by CBS News last night, and the tapes have become part of the debate over the President's massive energy bill.

"People were talking about market manipulation. People were talking about schemes, people were making jokes," said U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.

"While the president would like to have an energy bill, I'd like to have an energy bill that protects consumers," said Cantwell.

Consumers like Grandma Millie, mentioned in one exchange recorded between two Enron employees.

Employee 1: "All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?

Employee 2: "Yeah, Grandma Millie man.

Employee 1: "Yeah, now she wants her f-----g money back for all the power you've charged right up, jammed right up her a—for f-----g $250 a megawatt hour."


[/ QUOTE ]

Watch "The Corporation" - Enron is not a bad apple - it is standard operating procedures for corporations -

you guys put way too much faith in the altrustic motives of the free market when time and time again the market is proven it cannot be trusted with the responsibility to regulate itself without seriously screwing over the American people.

They do business and enjoy the protections of our armies and our economy, they should be subject to regulations that prevent them from price gouging and screwing consumers -

and we, the people, don't want them screwing us over on important stuff like water and electricity, so yes, long live the public trust.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not defending the actions of these Enron employees, but you have to be out of your mind to think that Enron was operating under free market conditions. The California energy situation is as far from free market as you can get outside of Cuba.

natedogg

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
none of the claims made here apply to the Enron blackouts -
which was a prime example of price gouging, natural monoplisitic practices, and typical psychopathic behavior from a corporate entity more concerned with profits then with actually serving the public trust.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly, great post.

[MtSmalls]

You are correct. I was in a hurry as I was posting from the office. I was attempting to refute Riddick's original inference that private enterprise wasn't actually "providing the essentials of life" in this case electrical power.

I live in Colorado. My power and natural gas are supplied by the XCel Energy Company, which is a private enterprise (non-governmental) as well as being a publicly traded company.

[Riddick]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to inject reality in to your theoretical world, but does the term "barriers to entry" mean anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking about economic barriers to entry that exclude less efficient, less productive firms and provide the greatest consumer benefits, or are we talking coercive-violent-intrusion-on-the-market barriers to entry hoisted up by government as in case of these blackouts?

[Riddick]

[ QUOTE ]
Like if consumers want a certain kind of wine that only grows in a certain area. Is that what youi are talking about?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. This rare form of wine's price would be determined by its relative scarcity, in this case, probably a very high price, but it doesn't mean that if you had to $$$ to spend you couldn't get it. This sounds similar to my Picasso example.

[Riddick]

[ QUOTE ]
riddick,

how much do you know about "natural monopolies"?

[/ QUOTE ]

About as much as I know about Unicorns.

In all seriousness, it is my understanding that a monopoly cannot exist naturally.