Kings vs paired door card

[MikeBandy]

How can you fold on fifth street? You could get J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and make a straight flush. All right, let’s get back to reality, now.

You didn’t say the players were loose, you said they were very loose; so I suppose trip threes are a possibility. If that’s what the player has, you’re in trouble. However, folding your hand because of this possibility would be a weak play.

Aces up or jacks up seem like a more probable holding. Folding because of the possibility of aces up would also be weak. After all, you’ve seen another ace, and your opponent’s betting pattern doesn’t indicate that he or she has aces in the hole.

You have to think you’re in trouble when you see the bet on the river. However, I’m very confident that, considering the size of the pot, kings up is a good enough hand to warrant a call.

[MichaelOar]

Jon,

I hate calling here. Assuming the bettor doesn't have trips, you are GREATLY increasing your chances of winning the pot if you raise here. If he does have trips, you're likely going to get 3-bet, so you at least know where the heck you're at (I don't think most players are tricky enough to 3-bet here without trips, and I think that even 2pr isn't likely to 3-bet here). By calling, you're letting the whole field stay in cheaply with their flukely draws. I also wonder what your plan is for the rest of the hand? Call all the way down unimproved? Fold 7th without 2pr? That can't be right.

I thought raising was the best, followed closely by a fold. I think calling is terrible here---and I'm pretty damned weak!

Michael

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
Jon,

I hate calling here. Assuming the bettor doesn't have trips, you are GREATLY increasing your chances of winning the pot if you raise here. If he does have trips, you're likely going to get 3-bet, so you at least know where the heck you're at (I don't think most players are tricky enough to 3-bet here without trips, and I think that even 2pr isn't likely to 3-bet here). By calling, you're letting the whole field stay in cheaply with their flukely draws. I also wonder what your plan is for the rest of the hand? Call all the way down unimproved? Fold 7th without 2pr? That can't be right.

I thought raising was the best, followed closely by a fold. I think calling is terrible here---and I'm pretty damned weak!

Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Which street is "here"

2. (Every thing regarding 5th street)
Do you realize that raising might not even clear the field?
Do you realize that you are very likely behind here?
Do you realize that you'll make your straight about 1 in 7 times?
Do you realize that you're hand is vunerable to a redraw?
Do you realize that no other 3 is showing?
Do you realize Ks up isn't nearly "a lock" in 5 way action?
Do you realize a solid draw facing 2-bets cold can't make a big mistake by calling or folding?
Do you realize raising forces a slim draw to correctly fold?


Do you have a plan for when you "know" seat 2 has trips?


I HATE raising 5th. There are times when a good hand doesn't get help, and a weak hand does. When this happens, espically in multiway action, just fold because Ks up won't be very strong in a showdown. There is no point chasing for a medium strength showdown hand when there are 4 other opponents. In this example, there is only 1 scary board, and our hero has more hope than just Ks up, so itsn't as bad as it could be, but hacking your way through the field with a bowie knife just to get shot in the head at showdown doesn't make any sense.

[MichaelOar]

So what do you want to do? You said early it's close between folding and calling. I think it's close between folding and raising, with calling not even being a contender. I can't think of a single good reason to just call here.

Michael

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you want to do? You said early it's close between folding and calling. I think it's close between folding and raising, with calling not even being a contender. I can't think of a single good reason to just call here.

Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I really have no strong preference btw folding and calling. I think folding is slightly better. But I'd probably call in the heat of the moment because I'm a sucker for action.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I understand your desire to raise. I used to play alot of 3-6 where multiway pots are a bit more common than 5-10. And I used to raise frequently, it very rarely worked, and it was very expensive.

[BeerMoney]

Frappe, the only thing I may do differently is go for a check raise on 4th.