Suckers play?

[OrianasDaad]

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As for the one who would tag me loose passive here, I am 14.5/7.5(I can't find my agression factor (I am new to PT)) over my first 2500 hands.

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That was me. A tight and aggressive player can have loose and passive tendancies in some spots. Your total aggression is listed under the "more detail" button on the general tab. Make sure you don't include PF aggression.

PT is a great source of study material, both on yourself, and on your opponents. While new to PT, I'd stick to yourself, since that person's game will have the largest impact on your bottom line.

I'm certain that you are playing an overall tight-aggressive style, but it's in the play of marginal hands that separate the people to avoid at the table and those that I don't mind tangling with. If you've got this leak, then you've probably got other leaks as well.

Long story short. If you can learn to play marginal and sub-marginal hands well, then you are well on your way to becoming an expert poker player.

[OrianasDaad]

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I evaluated to more than 50% the chance my opponent was bluffing in this spot, or betting for what he thinks is value. That's why I called down. Any comment?

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The stuff in bold makes no sense.

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Right. I think he means that the chance of his opponent mistakenly value-betting a hand that he thinks is best, plus the chance that his opponent knows he can only win by his opponent is bluffing is roughly 50%.

Naturally, this type of read denotes that you think that he's a "thinking" player, hence my comment earlier.

I might "value-bet" this on the turn, as villian, having A-high versus two random hands that have shown no interest, but if I'm called, I'm not paying off again. A player who will call on that turn with that pot (a tight player to boot) probably has my A5o beat here in this spot.

I guess that would make the hand more of a bluff, since my main chance of winning this tiny pot is having both my opponents fold on the turn, but with good reads it might be a good play.

[OrianasDaad]

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this could be expertly played (but it wasnt because you have no read)

you should be betting the turn

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I agree here that leading out on the turn is much better than planning to check and call two bets after MP3 bets and CO folds. My only gripe with this that is if we get a caller, then we still don't know where we stand on the river, and checking the river could induce a bluff that we might be getting only a small overlay on, and might fold to.

Naturally, I'd like the pot to be a little bigger.

Without concrete reads, it's hard to make any sort of "expert" plays, since almost all expert plays are based on the tendancies of your opponents.

I prefer check/folding here versus 95% of the people I play against.

[Rednax]

I don't think the checkcall, inducing the bluff, is so bad. We know villain doesn't have a Jack, and unless he has TT, 99 or A8 that he was scared to bet on the flop, we have the best hand. Yes, villain has outs, but we have the best hand.

But betting the turn gives a lot of FE, since villain has to consider that we may have an 8, and he may be drawing dead except to a flush draw. Forget the 50% stuff, if villain has 6 outs, then he's got 6 outs and is a real dog and we should bet. I guess you do have to add in the possiblilty of TT, 99, or A8, but it's nowhere near 50%.

If villain calls, it gets tough if a spade or OC falls, but I think a checkcall is worth it. But I doubt hero gets many calls on that turn.

[OrianasDaad]

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If villain calls, it gets tough if a spade or OC falls, but I think a checkcall is worth it. But I doubt hero gets many calls on that turn.

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You'll see a spade or an overcard 72% of the time here. Not counting the eights as overcards since that gives you a hand worth calling down. If you get called the 33% of the time you need to break even on the turn, then that's a fairly good chance that you'll be unsure of where you are at on the river, plus being out of position

Is a 2BB pot really worth it?

Betting is much better than check/calling with the intention of same on the river. No arguments there.

Edit: The player could have a bad Jack that he was afraid to bet. These types of players abound at .5/1

[kerowo]

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The player could have a bad Jack that he was afraid to bet. These types of players abound at .5/1

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So much so that I have a ginourmous sign by my monitor that says don't bet 2nd pair out of position on the turn! I think you could leave this play in your bag and not have it be a leak for a long time.