common situation that i f'ed up royally

[RikaKazak]

Pfreflop I disagree, but I know many LAG's at 1K that limp called my pfr with J8s or A5s (lolotrickedu used to do it to me all the time, if say 2 limpers and I bumped in on the button)

As far as flop, I really doubt you're ahead. I like a ck/call on flop, then lead a safe turn, or ck again and let him keep bluffing his overs. Ck/raise I think you have to fold to a 3 bet, unless there is history. Leading on flop is "meh" imo, maybe lead, call, or lead fold, then evaluate on turn if you get there.

[felson]

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a c/r on the flop basically shuts out all hands you beat, except for a few that are probably drawing very live.

consider c/calling flop. easiest play would be to lead it, but i like c/calling here bettter

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ok so i check call flop and the pot is 90. he has 165 left. do i now check-fold?

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no, of course not. lead most turns.

[crazygoose]

Oh yea...I always call this preflop...I wasn't disagreeing with ya there. I wasjust saying what my impression of shortstacked players was.

[mayday4379]

I know you said ignore preflop, but I used to make these calls verse shortstacks.

These are the problem that I saw:
-Your odds to hit 2 pair just aren't worth it to call with his stack.
-If you get a flush draw, then he's probably going to pound the pot and you probably won't have implied odds to call.
-If you happen to flush the flop, then he's probably backing off unless he's holding the Ace.
-You have to be willing to go to SD if your jack pairs and thats not a good long term play.

Once I started to punish the stortstacks for CALLING me (not me calling them) my game improved exponentially.

[mayday4379]

Also, i'd only raise it to $75, this still gives you a chance to get out if he decides to push.

[Triumph36]

This is probably not a call you should be making pre-flop. He only has 30 BBs. You will never know where you are at when you hit a pair. There's no good line here because you shouldn't have called in the first place.

If I did call this not noticing his stack size, I would lead at the flop and fold to a raise. If he called I'd put him on high cards and dump the rest in on the turn if no A or K came.

[Big_Jim]

Josh,

For 1.5 BBs getting decent pot odds (especially when BB calls, too, as he often willl, I don't hate the PF call. I love trying to bust short stacks, and have had fairly good success with it.

Flop play, however, is not good.

As yves said, c/r blows off almost every hand that you beat, and nothing that beats you. Furthermore, it basically pot commits you. I'm usually c/cing the flop, and either c/ring or c/fing a blank, depending on feel. I like c/r on the turn because he will be completely pot committed, and you can get a feel for where you're at. If he checks behind, you're good like every time.

Either c/c or bet a blank river.

[Nielsio]

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fold preflop

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[Jamougha]

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As yves said, c/r blows off almost every hand that you beat, and nothing that beats you. Furthermore, it basically pot commits you. I'm usually c/cing the flop, and either c/ring or c/fing a blank, depending on feel. I like c/r on the turn because he will be completely pot committed, and you can get a feel for where you're at. If he checks behind, you're good like every time.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I knew there was a way to play this hand.

[Ness3]

Josh,

This is why stack sizes are of great importance in NL Hold Em.

Ness