Guide for playing 99-QQ

[NewUser2006]

With medium pocket pairs against a raise, the common adage is "no set no bet" (with the exception of maybe picking off a bluff on the river after it's been checked through a few times).

If you're the one making the preflop raise, I like to keep the pressure on with a c-bet on the river and maybe fire again the turn if the flop was draw-filled.

[DonkBluffer]

[ QUOTE ]

e.g. UTG+1 raises 5xBB, I call in the BB with 1010, I am reguklarly clueless on the flop. This is a huge hole in my game, and I wa sjust wondering if anyone could help me?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are out of position, so you should be careful. If one or more overcards flop, you can safely check/fold.

But in any case, it depends on your opponent. Does he have a small raising range, or could he raise a lot of hands UTG? If he raises a lot, you could consider reraising him (for fold equity and because you have the best hand). Or if you call, an overpair is probably the best hand. If he's very tight, call and hope to flop a set.

If your opponent is very tight UTG, and you flop an overpair, you still have a pretty weak hand because your opponetn has JJ+ fairly often.

[matrix]

caveat: assuming 6-max. This is General advice - there is no really good general advice about poker *everything depends*

[ QUOTE ]

Normally, I'll raise a standard amount (4xBB, plus 1xBB for every limper), and then i'll typically have 2+ callers

[/ QUOTE ]

in this case adjust to the table conditions - raise 6BB or more if you have to to narrow the field to HU. Preflop ANY pp is almost always the best hand at the table - don't be afraid to raise for value.

Apres flop hit villain with standard 2/3-potsized CB/Value bet depending on the texture of the board.

[ QUOTE ]

However, I have problems regarding what to do if another player has already made this sort of raise and I'm either LP or in the blinds, do I call or re-raise here?


[/ QUOTE ]

LP re-raise everytime (you likely have the best hand!) Blinds call and play for set value only.

[ QUOTE ]

If the flop is horrible, I immediately give up the hand with that many callers (e.g. AJJ), but if only one overcard comes (like in your example), I'll proceed cautiously, and will probably fold under any real pressure/shut down on the turn if my flop bet is called usually.


[/ QUOTE ]

you aren't Cbetting at more than 2 villains are you????

Don't you might as well light money on fire.

Define "proceed cautiously".

Generally if there are more than 2 callers of your pfr give up the hand unless you flop a set if there are 2 overcards+ or if 1 overcard is an Ace. - if 1 non Ace overcard flops keep betting like you have the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]

I really have problesm with these situations though:

e.g. UTG+1 raises 5xBB, I call in the BB with 1010, I am regularly clueless on the flop. This is a huge hole in my game, and I wa sjust wondering if anyone could help me?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are oop - is flop nice? THEN bet. is flop bad? THEN check/fold.

in this case If flop = Txx flop = nice. If you have no set flop = not nice. If flop has an Ace and you are up against 1 villain only CBet and then give up UI or fold to UTG+1's raise.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]

With medium pocket pairs against a raise, the common adage is "no set no bet"


[/ QUOTE ]

...which is why we hate "common adages" around here.

To the original poster: these are hands that LOVE putting in a preflop raise, even after limpers. The reason is that they either (a) hit a nuclear-powered hand on the flop and win VERY often when they set up, or (b) take down the hand with a continuation bet.

Are you playing mostly live games, or maybe micro-limits? A 4xBB+1/limper raise really shouldn't be getting you 2+ callers on average at a no-limit online table with a buyin of $25 or higher. If your raises aren't getting enough respect, make them bigger (but CONSISTENTLY bigger -- don't change the size of raises with these hands unless you change the size of raises with all your hands). At a $10NL game, you can probably get away with 5xBB+1/limper or even 6xBB+1/limper; at a live game, 8xBB+2/limper isn't at all unreasonable, and sometimes 12xBB+4/limper is appropriate. Monitor the table, and see what's working and what's not -- go with what works. Your ideal situation is to get exactly one caller.

If someone else raises before the hand gets to you, you will now have a decision to make. Ciaffone's "5/10 rule" says you can call a bet that is less than 5% of your opponent's stack every time, but you should fold a bet that is more than 10% of your opponent's stack here. (Note: that's if you're playing the hand for set value.) I'd consider reraising with these hands, depending on a few things:

1. How loose the original raiser is with raises. The more frisky he is with raising preflop, the more likely I am to pop it back at him.
2. How many players will be in the hand. The worst situation for my hand is probably three players seeing the flop. With four or more, I'm getting pot odds to chase my set; heads-up, my hand is likely to win at showdown. If it's looking like the pot is going to be three-way if I call, I don't smooth-call -- I raise.
3. How weak-tight the original raiser is. If he's the sort that I can push off a hand on the flop, I'm wanting to reraise to take control of the hand and fire a continuation bet on the flop.
4. The stack sizes of the original raiser and the players left to act. If there's a deep stack left to act, I'd be more inclined to smooth-call and hope for another juicy caller. If there's a short stack left to act, I'd also be more inclined to smooth-call, since bloating the pot is likely to pot commit them (and me). If the original bettor is short- or deep-stacked, I'd be more inclined to smooth-call for the same reasons.

On the flop, you'll have one of three situations:

- Set. If you hit your set, play as though someone had lit your ball-hair on fire and you had to finish the hand before you can put the flames out. In other words: FAST. Bet at least 3/4-pot; if raised, three-bet all-in. Don't eff around -- get the money in the middle. Slowplaying is where sets go to die.

- Overpair. These should also be played extremely fast on the flop, but beware of resistance. Your hand is not infallible, here, and you need to be a bit cautious. Consider your hand the winner until proven otherwise, but always keep your eye on pot control. You do NOT want your stack in the middle with just an overpair.

- Underpair. This is a weak hand, and it's probably dog crap if an ace is on the board. If you were in control of the hand preflop, go ahead and make your continuation bet, but that's the last money you put in the pot. Literally. I'm talking "fold to a minraise" here. There's no reason why you should spend 1/3rd of your stack proving that you're beaten. Let it go.

This approach is highly cautious, but at SSNL tables, caution is warranted. The goal with medium pairs is not to maximize your value when you're ahead -- that happens quite naturally. The goal is minimizing your losses when you're behind, and that involves folding. Often. Even if you might be ahead. Let 'em go.

[Heine]

[ QUOTE ]
If you hit your set, play as though someone had lit your ball-hair on fire and you had to finish the hand before you can put the flames out.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an aboslute gem, and the next time i hit a set i'll be laughing and thinking about how I'm playing like my ball-hair is on fire.

[XCEO]

I'm a Limit-player / NL-noob who likes to learn NL. Thanks for this post Pokey, it was very helpful.

[RubbleRobble]

I'll repost, but this time hopefully say something serious.

I didn't bother to read replies to your question after they started seriously answering your question, so I apologize if I happen to repeat something that someone else already said.

At low stakes, and especially as a low stakes player myself, I realize that I am not nearly the reader that the higher stakes players are. Indeed its not even close to the most important skill to have or be developing at this early point in the game. For support of this statement I will only say that it's impossible to read an unthinking player.

That said, QQ and JJ are premium hands. You should not feel bad about playing these the way you described (potting preflop, and being cautious with them on ugly flops). 99 and TT, however, I have found through personal experience to be troublesome if played this way.

First, both this hands flop an overcard a disparagingly large amount of the time (JJ flops an over card 50% or so of the time as well-- if my memory serves). You are playing a game that morons frequent, and if you happen to have a few at your table, they will most likely be in your hand with you holding one of more card larger than a ten.

Second, attempting to read an opponent is disaster waiting to happen. That is why I play 99 and TT for set value. No pot raises pf, unless late position against one or two limpers (but this is mostly because you have position against weak opponents, not because your hand is a monster.) If you flop a set, bet. If not, fold.

My sarcasm detector doesn't really function properly, so I'm not exactly sure if Isura was being serious or not in the post where she (he?) recomments remembering that you should fold bottom set or top set on a monotone board.

I disagree with this, and pretty strongly too. Folding bottom set against a raiser for no reason other than that your opponent is the pre flop raiser is a serious leak. Isura's language is a little confusing in that she might be meaning to say "but you might have to fold any set (including bottom, middle and top) on a monotone...." This I still disagree with for this reason:

Law of total probability says you can be in two situations
1) your opponent does not yet have a flush. In which case you are VERY likely to be ahead here. If they are specifically drawing to a flush (at this point) you can punish them with a healthy bet (especially if you have position on them).

2) your opponent is a lucksack and has flopped a flush. In which case you still win this hand by the showdown a little more than a third of the time. Your opponent is bad, so look for them to price you in, as I see a lot of low limit NLHE players make small (if any) flop bets when they have a hand this strong trying to get you involved in the pot. Your set already means you are involved, so lol@them cause they dont know about it. Look to implied odds to delete their stack, especially their play strongly suggests that they DO have this flush.

-RubbleRobble

[chicagoY]

Sets are overrated, I push with 2/7 suited preflop but cleverly slowplay 2/7 offsuit.

[Supesimmo]

Thanks very much, really helpful advice

Earlier this situation came up on the flop:

I raised someones1/2 PSB on the flop with JJ (on averpair at that point). They then re-raised all-in (we had about the same stack sizes)

Although that is very sketchy detail for a hand, is it a situation where I should be pretty sure I'm behind?

[Mik1w]

not enough detail, in particulat, stack sizes and pre flop action...