The state of Notre Dame football.

[shemp]

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(including the successes of '05 and '06)

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I don't understand how you can blame Ty's lack of recruiting for the failures this year and give Weiss the accolades for the success in '05 and '06

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He can take his'n, and beat your'n; and take your'n, and beat his'n.

They just need to get more urine on the schedule, apparently.

[Thremp]

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(including the successes of '05 and '06)

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I don't understand how you can blame Ty's lack of recruiting for the failures this year and give Weiss the accolades for the success in '05 and '06

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He can take his'n, and beat your'n; and take your'n, and beat his'n.

They just need to get more urine on the schedule, apparently.

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Its like AcesHigh for the modern era.

[damaniac]

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but the program is clearly heading in the right direction. Not sure you can say that about UW at this point.


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Wow, I think you've got that backwards.

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Yeah, wow. What you're saying is basically "we've got good young players and good recruits", which is true. But while getting recruits is a huge part of the job, you still need to coach them into a good team with solid fundamentals and such. And, uh, what is this year showing us about that?

Again, it's not that ND isn't great or even good this year; if they went 6-6 given the upperclass talent and youth I wouldn't draw many negative conclusions. But they're not anywhere near that. They're terrible. It's hard to believe, given what we've seen this year, that Weis is capable of developing players into a solid team. If you took any coach now proven to be successful (not great, just good) and put them in this same position, no way they have a team that looks anywhere near this awful. You can't explain it away using talent. This is a team that has been poorly coached. You'd have to almost try to suck at coaching to wind up with this mess. Great/good coaches don't wind up with a mess like this in year 3.

[DrewDevil]

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Washington fans are getting sick of this too with 2nd half meltdowns vs. Ohio State and UCLA.

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This isn't due to poor scheme. This is due to lack of talent on the team compared to their opponent and the team screwing up(primarily in the 3rd quarter).

b

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See this is the thing about a big time coach like Charlie Weis is that he makes the half time adjustments. Of ND's four opponents only four have outperformed them in the second half.

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I see what you did there.

[FlyWf]

Real simple question:

UW vs. Notre Dame. Neutral field. Any guesses as to the line?

[Dudd]

Probably UW -17, give or take. That's pretty much from rounding down Sagarin, take it for what it is.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Washington fans are getting sick of this too with 2nd half meltdowns vs. Ohio State and UCLA.

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This isn't due to poor scheme. This is due to lack of talent on the team compared to their opponent and the team screwing up(primarily in the 3rd quarter).

b

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See this is the thing about a big time coach like Charlie Weis is that he makes the half time adjustments. Of ND's four opponents only four have outperformed them in the second half.

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nh sir





I just want to note. The 'idiot' Ron Zook inherited nothing. In his 3rd year, he has a competitive team, despite recruiting classes ranked worse every year. Zook was able to scout more diamonds in the rough and coach them up better. Also helps that he plucked Benn and Wilson from ND's clutches despite Jabba the Weis' best efforts.

OK, so Zook had a chance to give young guys experience.

Well, let's look at Urban Meyer.
Meyer is now entering that 3rd year. I predicted some hard times for him due to missing junior/senior leadership (coaching turnover--recruiting issues stuff mentioned in this thread). I was wrong. Instead, he found a way to integrate many of the young guys into playing time last year. He still won the national title last year. He has better prepared players for this season. Of course, it helps Urban developed an O-line.


Weis, by any measure, is a complete failure this year. His overall is still above average, but could change either up or down.

Knowing that only 2 OL were recruited in Ty's last class, Weis should've made an effort to bring more than 2 OL in during his first class. He had no allowances for misses and that's just really poor long-term strategic planning.


another thing, everyone talks about the few OL recruits and how bad ND's offense has been. Let us not forget the defense has been dreadful and there were plenty of recruits there at DB and LB. Again, we see Chubby Charlie neglecting to fill in the gaps with meat in the middle (1 DT after 0 the previous class?). What was his strategerie?

2004
3 DE
2 LB
4 DB

2005
1 DT
1 DE
3 LB
2 DB

3 stars can be all-conference caliber by their upper class years with better scouting than the services and proper coaching...not many of them, but a few should be

[Thremp]

MT2R,

Recruiting and player development is very high variance. You get Ryan Leif and Peyton Manning. Sometimes you just gotta give the guy time. Saying he is a bust now is as retarded as saying he was a great coach last year (he is a great coach, but not because ND did well... results oriented thinking... It also remains to be seen how his recruiting is since that is the main thing for college coaches).

This is worse than reading a Mel Kiper draft grade.

[MyTurn2Raise]

also, let us not forget one important thing:
while ND has a national recruiting plan, the bread and butter of their recruiting has been the Chicagoland Catholic schools in the modern era. It's been one of the two or three areas where ND has focused most. ND gets panned whenever they miss out on a big player from those schools, notably Donovan McNabb and Simeon Rice.

for those not familiar with the area,
that's Brother Rice, St. Rita, Mt. Carmel, Joliet Central Catholic, Providence, etc

Those schools have been powers in Illinois football due to recruiting a large swath of high school age players. Once a player gets into the catholic system, they are much more likely to be steered to Notre Dame if they are talented.
Usually, the best players in the state emerge from this league. For the previous 4-5 years, that hasn't been the case. The proportion of the best players coming from said schools has decreased. This year, it's back up there and ND got verbals from Fleming and Filer.

Players emerging from public schools are a little more doubtful of the catholic school experience.

The catholic league is one of the few areas with a talent pool and geographic proximity to ND and kids that could like the Catholic School environment.


Also, go through ND's recruits in general. They can gather alot of catholic players, but their campus struggles to appeal to those from a public background.

[shemp]

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MT2R,

Recruiting and player development is very high variance. You get Ryan Leif and Peyton Manning. Sometimes you just gotta give the guy time. Saying he is a bust now is as retarded as saying he was a great coach last year (he is a great coach, but not because ND did well... results oriented thinking... It also remains to be seen how his recruiting is since that is the main thing for college coaches).

This is worse than reading a Mel Kiper draft grade.

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It isn't at all clear that he's a good head coach, let alone great. He hasn't built a team. He guided someone else's. Maybe he'll learn how to do it. I would put nothing past someone who was able to get his first head man gig at ND and parlay that in one into 10.