cash out curse on Stars

[sethypooh21]

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You said that you are in no way affaliated with pokerstars, yet, in this thread you have made 43(so far) posts defending them. 43 [censored] posts! LOL.

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ZOMG! RIGGED folks like RJD are bad for online poker, so many people have an interest in making sure his unsubstantiated drivel is adequately refuted. Josem is doing this so you don't have to...

[realjaydub]

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You said that you are in no way affaliated with pokerstars, yet, in this thread you have made 43(so far) posts defending them. 43 [censored] posts! LOL.

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ZOMG! RIGGED folks like RJD are bad for online poker, so many people have an interest in making sure his unsubstantiated drivel is adequately refuted. Josem is doing this so you don't have to...

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How am I bad for online poker, i think just the opposite is true.

Wouldn't anybody here like to see a third party group oversee these sites?

[Josem]

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How am I bad for online poker

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Your unsubstantiated scaremongering and lies about sites being rigged decreases the faith that people have in their operation.

This is a fairly obvious deterrent to some people playing.

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Wouldn't anybody here like to see a third party group oversee these sites?

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I think it would be great if there was a truly independent regulator and/or arbiter and/or appeals process for complaints. In fact, you can read a thread I started on this at http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10826588

[Mike Haven]

Please note that any future abusive remarks to other posters will result in at least temporary bannings from the forums.

Kindly keep the debate civil.

[MicroBob]

Thanks Mike.

Agree with Josem obviously. There are enough gullible people out there who are reluctant to even try online-poker because of the paranoid rumors that "it's rigged and they set it up so you can't win. It's not real cards. I've played cards a long-time and you can just TELL a difference."

That's why it becomes necessary to point out that losing players are actually losing because they aren't playing well and through their own self-denial about their skills.

Someone like OnlinePro is a good example.
Good players point out the costly mistakes me makes at the tables but he simply chooses to ignore that aspect.

He himself even acknowledges that he plays for long stretches of time on a lot of tables. But then goes back on his own idea and blames his lack of success on 'doom account' or it's rigged against him or it must be a cash-out curse or whatever.


As always, I'm still pretty fascinated by the people who so strongly believe in this stuff. Particularly the ones who so strongly believe in it yet continue to play there.
I sure as hell know that if I thought it was rigged or cash-out cursed or whatever then I certainly wouldn't play there AT ALL.
But some of these people seem to not be able to help themselves and they play and play and play there even though they supposedly know how cursed or rigged or skewed it is.

It's just weird. Why would one continue playing there if they thought that?


Different Q - Is realjaydub a former 2+2'er?
This couldn't possibly be a new gabbyyyy account, could it?

That would be awesome if so.

[antisocialgrace]

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There's nothing illegal about tweaking a rng to max your profits, if that is what's happening here.

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You continue to lie like a lying liar who lies.

While legislation like this would exist in every Western society on earth (and, presumably, many others) I've provided an extract from the Victorian crimes act because that is most accessible to me:

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82 Obtaining financial advantage by deception
(1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or another any financial
advantage is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to level 5 imprisonment (10 years
maximum).

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Note: This is not legal advice. If you wish to obtain legal advice, see a professional

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Einstein .. Australian laws govern people who live in ... now stay with me here ...

Australia.

Unless the proprietors of River Stars happen to visit your little far off isolated corner of the planet they are no more subject to the jurisdiction thereof than I am to Captain Kirk's on the Starship Enterprise.

Stop being a mouthpiece.

[sethypooh21]

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Unless the proprietors of River Stars happen to visit your little far off isolated corner of the planet they are no more subject to the jurisdiction thereof than I am to Captain Kirk's on the Starship Enterprise.

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This is at best incomplete, at worst 100% wrong.

[Lyrrad]

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Just wondering, why will stars not publish their algorithm? I read the article that jaydub posted earlier in the thread and it was quite interesting. Planetpoker had a faulty rng and was spotted when reviewed. Cigital(the company who reviewed stars rng) has clearly given stars their stamp of approval which means 1)it is random 2)the algorithim has no weak points for potential hackers to break the code. Maybe Stars could publish the code given that Cigital has approved it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... they did publish their shuffle algorithm:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

Their explanation for the shuffle is sufficient to generate a completely random shuffle.

And to anyone that believes that there is non-randomness in some circumstances (near bubble of a tournament, after a cashout, on the 2nd Tuesday after a full moon etc), it's extremely easy to verify if it is occuring. Simply post a large sample of hands that meet that criteria under consideration and people here can do an analysis of it.

Two points:
1) If statistical analysis can't find anything unrandom [a] about it, then a person looking at the hands won't be able to detect it.
2) If the deviation from the normal is too small to detect, then why rig it if the total effect on results is so small?

Any reasonable, rational argument against the randomness of the cards would need to refute these points.

[a]: Note: Of course, it's impossible to say if a sequence is random or not by just having the sequence, but it is possible to give a probability of whether something is randomly generated.

[Josem]

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Einstein .. Australian laws govern people who live in ... now stay with me here ... Australia.

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No. This is wrong. Australian laws govern actions which occur in Australia. An obvious comparison can be made to people who run fraudulent hoaxes by mail - stealing money like this is a pretty obvious breach of the local laws. They are rarely pursued because of the difficulty in identifying the alleged offender.

I'm willing to wager that every single Australian court is going to claim jurisdiction over a fraud committed over the internet that targetted Australians.

You will get exactly the same response from any US court.


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Unless the proprietors of River Stars happen to visit your little far off isolated corner of the planet they are no more subject to the jurisdiction thereof than I am to Captain Kirk's on the Starship Enterprise.

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You are wrong for the reasons outlined above. In addition, Australia has extradition treaties with many countries (most obviously, the UK and many European countries)

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Stop being a mouthpiece.

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I'm not a mouthpiece for anyone other than myself.

[JDalla]

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realjaydubs,

please stop. you are wrong. I cash out all the time and I play for a living. This thread is absurd.

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I too cash out all the time and play for a living. The true lack of logic by realjaydub in this thread is amazing. Riddle me this. How does anyone make a living playing online poker if there is a such thing as a cashout curse?

I'll answer for you. Its not possible to both have a curse and make a living playing poker. If the sites rigged it is so that when you cashed out, you got pounded for say the amount your cashed out for, then it would be impossible to make a living.

I hope you aren't claiming that no one can make a living playing poker online. You can't be that misguided right? And if you can concede that point, then please explain how a cashout curse could exist and yet still allow players to make a living?

And when you can't answer that, please stop posting.

Kodfish


ps. When someone resorts to name calling in a discussion, as realjaydub as done repeatedly, its usually a sign that they have no logical footing in the argument and must resort to name calling.

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Of course there a winners, big winners....I never disputed that. There are a ton of players who play for a living, that's fact. Winners will always be a source of income for the poker site. Remember, they are in this to make money, not give it away.

Of course I have a couple personal reasons why this is possible even with a skewed rng abliet not skewed 100% of the time.

a)the true winners have adapted to the skewed rng and have developed a system to know when a beat or bad streak is coming and play less. I too had developed a system in sng's that worked pretty well.

b)you were just lucky enough to get a boom account when you signed up. Face it, even if your leap years ahead of everyone else your edge is still not that significant.

C)I suck bawls, get lucky and go on a heater for 3 months then variance kicks in and takes my monies after cashing out, but not until I cashout. Repeat over 3 years.

d)They have an algorithm based on players who deposit, when they have proven to be a contionous depositer, why wouldn't they rig it against them, they will be a source of income for life.



p.s The mud flings both ways....If I don't have a leg to stand on neither does call the cops boy.

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jesus.

a) I have never "developed a system" that beats the RNG. This is so absurd.

b) then why do good live players often become good online players and vice versa? There are no "boom" accounts.

c) you suck bawls, and thats why you think its rigged.

d) you are rediculous. stop being stubborn. admit you are wrong and work on your GAME instead of blaming "the cashout curse".

lets make a bet. I play on your account after you cash out for 1 week and I make money. BETS?