ask me about: hustling golf

[tuq]

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For a 3-4 HDCP I'd predict about a +10 (+3 on par 3s, +6 on par 4s, +1 on par 5s).



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on a good day.

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Heh, you're right, I suck. A 3-4 HDCP means they tend to average 6-8 over so that was a ridiculous comment by me. I think I was too focused on the scratch golfer portion of the argument to focus properly.

I'm presently a 3 HDCP and thinking through various courses I'd be happy to shoot an 85 (+13-15 on average, +8-10 on a HDCP rating) at the courses I know. I'd simply edit my OP but JTrout called me out on it.

[JTrout]

scratch sounds about right...

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sk any good golfer on this thread...it's not possible to shoot 36 in this format.

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Total crap. I played this format one time. I watched the only kid in my group shoot 35. He was an above average college golfer but nothing amazing. The course was very hard too. You put Tiger on a municipal golf course thats like 6500 yards and he shoots like 66 or better taking the worst of two balls.

I shot 48 and played terribly and I was probably 17.

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lol at the bold. get real.

Ok, let me get this straight, you guys are not talking about just taking the worst tee shot, and then playing the hole out from there. You are really talking about a true reverse-scramble, where you are always hitting two balls, and each time from the "worst" location of the previous ball.

If this is the case, keep in mind that on a par four you hit a drive 280 down the middle, and then hit one 265 in the rough. You are then playing the one in the rough.

You then hit a 155 yard 8 iron to 10 feet on one shot, but put the next 155 yard 8 iron in the bunker 30 feet left of the pin.

You then have to play that bunker shot, and put one on the green. No problem, but you are then playing from your worse bunker shot.

You can probably two putt from the worst bunker shot, but now you have a bogey, and you are 1 over after the first hole. Now if you were able to play that 1st 8 iron, then you have a 10 foot birdie putt. But your are not, so you have a bogey.

Now play that scenerio out over 9 holes or 18 holes and just think how precise you have to be just to par a hole.

I mean you also have to think about the compounding problems. Let's say you tee off on a par 5 and hit one great shot, but one shot is near the lip of a fairway bunker. Not only are you stuck playing the bunker shot, but you have to take the worst result from there, and then the worst result from that one, etc.

Anyway, I still maintain that the guy in the initial story is NOT shoting 36 in this format if he is having to play his 36 CONSECUTIVE WORST shots. Also, you are not going to run into a College kid at a muni whose 35 CONSECUTIVE WORST shots are going to have him draining his 35th shot on the 9th hole.


Let me put it another way. Let's say you got a hot-shot College kid that shoots 68 pretty steady. I doubt anyone of us would argue that if he could play two-ball-best-ball with himself, he could maybe shoot between 60-63 on a good day. Let's be generous and give him a 60, for an 8 stroke difference, and keep in mind that he did this by getting to use his 60 consecutive best shots... Now make him play two-ball worst ball, and explain how his 60 to 80 CONSECUTIVE worst shots could even see him breaking 75. It's not happening. Even if most of the misses are only slight, you are piling worst shot upon worst shot upon worst shot for the entire game. The cumulative effect is not going to be 66 or 72. Sorry.

[limon]

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If a solid mini-tour player came to you and said, "let's play for $$$" what would be your play? (assume he's a +3 and has a healthy backer)

what kind of bets would you want?

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depends on his/the backers motivations and what they know/think of me. setting up a hustle is all about motivations. ive had this happen before. a guy who owed me money asked if i'd play his brother double or nothing on his debt. i knew of his brother from hi-school golf and knew he was trying to make it as a pro so i demanded 6 strokes match play and that they both be there for the match. they agreed because the brother knew me too but he knew the "old" me. the 6 strokes was actually a little light his brother was VERY good, but i just kept hanging around. these 2 were real hotheads and i figureds if things got tight they would psych each other out thats why i wanted them both there. its hard to play in front of your backer if you're not used to it. anyway we were square after 18 and i was salivating for sudden death but they were arguing and looking pale. i let the dude just pay his original debt plus green fees and dinner/drinks. i wanted to keep them around and i didnt want a fist fight over whether we had agreed to a playoff.

ON MOTIVATIONS: why are so many big time poker players also big time golf hustlers? the reason is the mark is motivated to play big 10 to 50k a hole and these hustlers like russ hamilton are the ONLY ones who will take their action and they will only take it on their terms. if a guy pops up out of the blue and wants to play me for 5k i dont know the overlay there is no obvious destructive motivation, ill play him smaller and try to figure it out though.

[diddle]

reverse scramble prop bet coming up? I bet no one in this thread can break 80 on a reasonable course

[iMsoLucky0]

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depends on his/the backers motivations and what they know/think of me. setting up a hustle is all about motivations. ive had this happen before. a guy who owed me money asked if i'd play his brother double or nothing on his debt. i knew of his brother from hi-school golf and knew he was trying to make it as a pro so i demanded 6 strokes match play and that they both be there for the match. they agreed because the brother knew me too but he knew the "old" me. the 6 strokes was actually a little light his brother was VERY good, but i just kept hanging around. these 2 were real hotheads and i figured if things got tight they would psych each other out thats why i wanted them both there. its hard to play in front of your backer if you're not used to it. anyway we were square after 18 and i was salivating for sudden death but they were arguing and looking pale. i let the dude just pay his original debt plus green fees and dinner/drinks. i wanted to keep them around and i didnt want a fist fight over whether we had agreed to a playoff.

ON MOTIVATIONS: why are so many big time poker players also big time golf hustlers? the reason is the mark is motivated to play big 10 to 50k a hole and these hustlers like russ hamilton are the ONLY ones who will take their action and they will only take it on their terms. if a guy pops up out of the blue and wants to play me for 5k i dont know the overlay there is no obvious destructive motivation, ill play him smaller and try to figure it out though.

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Awesome story and good tips. Do you have any more stories like this or any more tips for psyching your opponent out?

[Turkish Mickey]

i read a pretty interesting article on russ hamilton if anyone else wants to check it out... Article

limon you said you don't use grease normally, do you play with the regular number of clubs or do you have some extra clubs. in the article they mention hamilton using a club called the 'spin doctor', how effective are these types of clubs?

[SukitTrebek]

limon, great thread.

can you tell some stories about literally how you go about setting up a match at the casino. i mean do you actively seek out a mark out of the blue like seeing a guy playing 1k a hand blackjack and go sit down and mention golf or just tell a golf story at poker table and say i'm playing xxx course tomorrow if anyone wants to play?

[malnek]

shooting around par playing reverse scramble for a scratch or better golfer would not be difficult at all. you have to keep in mind any golfer shooting around par is consistent enough to repeat the same shots over and over again.

however, it should be noted that the worse you are, the worse you're gonna score with this format. also, this format places a great deal of emphasis on the short game.

a hot shot college kid playing at a +2 will have no problems shooting 75. no doubt about that.

grease? LOL spin doctor club? ahaha i want to play this russ hamilton guy. or maybe he busts out the vaseline and the spin doctor to induce action.

i kno i would definitely take out my huge hacker cart golf bag with a pull cart if i wanted to hustle some haha.

[HDPM]

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reverse scramble prop bet coming up? I bet no one in this thread can break 80 on a reasonable course

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I might make a small wager on one poster to do it. Dunno if he will want to try tho.