Neteller Update...

[Sniper]

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xxxxx: Can you assure me I will be paid in full?
Marcella: I cannot make any promises.

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Wow.. That's really bad... should have asked to speak to a supervisor at that point...

[JayA]

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So who's the mostly likely target from Poker Stars for the feds to nab next? Are any of their execs in the country? Any former founders? Lee Jones isn't the most Costa Rican sounding name I ever heard. Maybe they'll just go after his family like the Mafia does. Raymer/Moneymaker/Hachem safe?

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Leader]

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So who's the mostly likely target from Poker Stars for the feds to nab next?

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We live in a poker world, but poker is not the center of the world. This is about sports betting and casinos 10x more then it's about poker. The whole case against these two NT guys is about a bet on an NFL game for example.

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Are any of their execs in the country?

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Almost certainly they are not.

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Raymer/Moneymaker/Hachem safe?

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I believe arresting them would be like arresting people in Eron commercials.

[Eric Stoner]

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Eh, people will just switch over to Click2Pay or something like that to transfer their money over, no?

Not the end of the world. You guys act as if online poker will cease to exist.

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SUB,

I didn't see anyone say online poker will cease to exist, EXCEPT YOU! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

While it is not the end of the world, Neteller's actions are a SIGNIFICANT event...

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When that unfortunate act passed by congress back in the fall, I had a bad feeling that it would come to this and many focused on the funding methods used to put money into the poker economy.

I was told then by many here that I missed the point completely. I even got "Do you see why?" response.

If banks or other processors are refusing Neteller's transactions, I think the more direct methods funidng online poker rooms will be soon behind.

This is not a good day.

[Leader]

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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These guys are in slightly deeper from what I've heard because they own the software for FT. They're probably ok, but they're def. more of a target then the Stars spokesmen.

[Sniper]

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The whole case against these two NT guys is about a bet on an NFL game for example.

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Leader, I suggest you read the full complaint...

[JayA]

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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These guys are in slightly deeper from what I've heard because they own the software for FT. They're probably ok, but they're def. more of a target then the Stars spokesmen.

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You're right. The original team Full Tilt may be in a bit deep because they all contribute to the creation and updates of Full Tilt. That will be interesting to see if the gov't goes after people like Lederer and Ferguson.

[*TT*]

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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These guys are in slightly deeper from what I've heard because they own the software for FT. They're probably ok, but they're def. more of a target then the Stars spokesmen.

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Lederer no longer lives in the USA, Full Tilt has relocated to Ireland earlier this year.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Sniper]

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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These guys are in slightly deeper from what I've heard because they own the software for FT. They're probably ok, but they're def. more of a target then the Stars spokesmen.

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Lederer no longer lives in the USA, Full Tilt has relocated to Ireland earlier this year.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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... and he has no intention of playing tournaments in the US ever again??

[JayA]

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Well if any of those people are not save from arrests, then that means there are pros from Full Tilt who would fall into the same category (i.e. Lederer, Ferguson, etc.).

Meh...Idk. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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These guys are in slightly deeper from what I've heard because they own the software for FT. They're probably ok, but they're def. more of a target then the Stars spokesmen.

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Lederer no longer lives in the USA, Full Tilt has relocated to Ireland earlier this year.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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You are right. Forgot he went to Ireland. But this guy brings up an interesting point...

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Look kids: The United States does not have juridiction outside its borders. Pokersites are not set up on U.S. soil. Therefore they have no jurisdiction. It's that simple.



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Obviously, you're not a lawyer. A better answer is, if a person (even a foreign one) does business in our country, it's subject to our courts. Poker sites in general have gone to great lengths to establish their domicile in foreign countries, but the fact is many of them rely on American players for much of their revenue. Thus, they are subject to our laws and our legal system, notwithstanding their self-serving comments. Just because they strongly believe that's not the case doesn't make it so.

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It is true that the companies by doing business with u.s. citizens have established continuous and systematic contacts sufficient to give the U.S. courts jurisdiction over them. However, all extradition treaties require that the act be a crime in both countries. So while a U.S. court would have the jurisdiction to indict the head of a company, if they can't get the host country to extradite, how are they supposed to actually stop them?

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So do you think Party and Neteller are just being too precautious or overthinking this act?

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...c=1#Post8807877

What effect do you think this point would have on sites such as Full Tilt and Stars?