Ask a Catholic?

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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Evolution happened but we didn't come from monkeys. We evolved yes but have always been human.

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Wrong. Ask the Bishop of Rome.

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To eloborate a little, The Bishop of Rome has issued a statement stating that he sees no conflict between the doctrines of Catholicism and Evolution.

There are plenty of pot shots someone can take at the Catholic Church; its stance on evolution isn't one of them.

[IcarusJam]

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You're well aware that I wasn't saying anything about sources.

This is what I mean. You're not particularly interested in the subject of your own thread.

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I don't camp my thread in BBV, every hour of every day like most do. I have a life outside the internet, scary world i know. think what you want, sorry if i'm not good enough of a threader for you.

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Nobody asked you to. Diverting the subject so often and so carelessly didn't work, and you got called on it multiple times, so ... what made you think that you could get past criticism for using an ineffective tactic by using the very same ineffective tactic in response?

You just don't seem to have more than passing interest in your own thread, which is a bit odd.

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Do i haz potential?

[IcarusJam]

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source for the pope saying we came from apes plz!

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John Paul II declares that evoution is 'more than a theory' http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...ticanview.html

'Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.'

Also catholic doctrne says that "no real disagreement can exist between the theologian and the scientist provided each keeps within his own limits. . . . If nevertheless there is a disagreement . . . it should be remembered that the sacred writers, or more truly ‘the Spirit of God who spoke through them, did not wish to teach men such truths (as the inner structure of visible objects) which do not help anyone to salvation’; and that, for this reason, rather than trying to provide a scientific exposition of nature, they sometimes describe and treat these matters either in a somewhat figurative language or as the common manner of speech those times required, and indeed still requires nowadays in everyday life, even amongst most learned people" (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus 18).

This is known as 'Non-Overlapping Majisteria' or NOMA. The church accepts that science is responsible for determining physical truth while the church deals with spiritual matters.

Denying that humans share a common ancestor with all primates would bring the church into direct and irresolvable conflict with science; and not only that but on an issue where the Pope has expressly said that science is correct. Therefore it is contradictory to Catholic doctrine.

The Catholic church also publicly accepts the Big Bang cosmological model and the established age of the universe of around 13.5 billion years. They even fund reputable, mainstream astronomical and astrophysical work via the Vatican Observatory.

Let me know if you need any more help on understanding Catholicism mkay?

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Nowhere does it say all catholics must believe in evolution, it says there is no conflict...seems like there is neutrality more than coercement.

[Blarg]

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You're well aware that I wasn't saying anything about sources.

This is what I mean. You're not particularly interested in the subject of your own thread.

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I don't camp my thread in BBV, every hour of every day like most do. I have a life outside the internet, scary world i know. think what you want, sorry if i'm not good enough of a threader for you.

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Nobody asked you to. Diverting the subject so often and so carelessly didn't work, and you got called on it multiple times, so ... what made you think that you could get past criticism for using an ineffective tactic by using the very same ineffective tactic in response?

You just don't seem to have more than passing interest in your own thread, which is a bit odd.

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Do i haz potential?

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Yeah, but you dropped the ball a bit. I wonder if you're kind of scared to answer some of those questions, actually. It looks like it.

[Jamougha]

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Nowhere does it say all catholics must believe in evolution, it says there is no conflict...seems like there is neutrality more than coercement.

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Beside the point. If you believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth then it's logically inconsistent to reject evolution in the manner you did earlier in the thread. And if you were not to believe he is then in what sense would you be a Catholic?

[Chump Change]

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Do you believe that Catholicism is a monotheistic religion? Does it matter? I ask cuz the father, son, hg thing is weird as monotheism and then there's Mary's role and all the saints and angels and it just starts to look like there's alot of divine beings hanging around. Plus like Satan, is he not a god and if not, what is he?

Ah, your asking about the biggest mystery of the Church. The Trinity. It is three persons in one God, just like there are three sides to a triangle.

Mary is the mother of the living God, she is adored and honored amongst the Church. She is prayed to a lot because of her intimate relation to Christ, him being her son.

You know how some people view Doyle Brunson? A lot say he is the best in the world, when he dies, his legacy will live forever. Saints are the high rollers of tv poker. Their stories will be remember for being so amazingly devoted to God.

Satan is the fallen angel Lucifer, when God created all the angels, they had a choice to obey, and serve mankind, or bail, and live against the love of God.

1/3 of the angels followed lucifer.

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This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts?

(And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.)

[Chump Change]

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You're well aware that I wasn't saying anything about sources.

This is what I mean. You're not particularly interested in the subject of your own thread.

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I don't camp my thread in BBV, every hour of every day like most do. I have a life outside the internet, scary world i know. think what you want, sorry if i'm not good enough of a threader for you.

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Nobody asked you to. Diverting the subject so often and so carelessly didn't work, and you got called on it multiple times, so ... what made you think that you could get past criticism for using an ineffective tactic by using the very same ineffective tactic in response?

You just don't seem to have more than passing interest in your own thread, which is a bit odd.

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Do i haz potential?

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Yeah, but you dropped the ball a bit. I wonder if you're kind of scared to answer some of those questions, actually. It looks like it.

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Aye, Icarus, you're missing the point of this thread, though you created it so perhaps you have authority on what the point should be.

Nobody is looking to you as an authority on catholicism. Most, if they don't know more than you already, can easily google or wiki answers.

What people are genuinely interested in are the thoughts of a young man that is NOT an authority, not an established theologian, and even a bit confused himself, but still identifies himself, fairly strongly, as a catholic.

[MegaFossil]

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This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts?

(And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.)

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The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship.

[Chump Change]

Film Christ?

[Hoi Polloi]

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This is what I was getting at earlier. It's pretty clear in the commandments that there should be no worship of other gods and no worship of false idols, yet the holy trinity, especially the part with mary, goes directly against this. Any thoughts?

(And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you put it. When you get into the idea of the pope and a whole hierarchy of religious figures that are being worshipped, in a sense, things get even muddier.)

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The Pope, saints, Mary, etc. aren't worshipped by Catholics they are venerated. We understand their special place in developing the Church, but they aren't worshipped. There is one God we worship.

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Catholics pray to saints, yes? So, if there's only one god, is he listening to those prayers? Or does Mary hear them and take some action? If so, what's the deal with that? That's more than veneration, no? That says Mary is some kind of divine being, no? I mean she's dead, right? So, she's not human, but she hears and responds to prayers, so she's some kind of consciousness which is not human and has some standing with Jesus in heaven, no? So, like how's that not a goddess without like totally splitting hairs?

BTW, I'm cool with polytheism, I just think Catholicism (and Christianity generally) is not monotheistic except by fiat.

Also, after Jesus created the universe, and then like things didn't go so well, so he decided to send himself down to earth as a mortal and have himself be sacrificed to save mankind. Two things: wtf is that and why don't Catholics have sacrifices?

Thanks.