Wpex Stole My Money

[2easy]

[ QUOTE ]
...If you choose not to use programs like PT you are at a disadvantage to those that do. I chose not to, and that's my problem. I don't use it because I don't want to develop a crutch when I can't use the same sort of tool in live play.

[/ QUOTE ]


It's called observation.

Live: a maximum of 30 hands per hour, maximum of 1 table, and a maximum of 9 opponents with recognizable features to keep track of.

If you are worried that you would need such a "crutch" in that environment, I think you have bigger problems than PT and a HUD dulling your analytical powers.

[justin]

hijacking the thread i tried cash out couple days ago. how long does it take for them to accpet my cashout. I emialed them they said there backed up with US cashouts by check. Any other experience?

[hoppscot22]

[ QUOTE ]
hijacking the thread i tried cash out couple days ago. how long does it take for them to accpet my cashout. I emialed them they said there backed up with US cashouts by check. Any other experience?

[/ QUOTE ]

this occasionally has happened to me... usually resolved in a couple days

[El_Hombre_Grande]

Fred:

No matter the outcome of this investigation, I was quite alarmed by the number of folks who posted on this thread who seemed (to me at least) overly concerned about the idea that they are not going to be warned about illegal software. Quite frankly, I think it MAY BE because they are running illegal software and want the opportunity to do it until warned. So long as you have a foolproof manner of detection, and an opportunity to appeal (as you do), and are as open and responsive as you have been thusfar, I see no problem with "the timing" issue. There should be consequences IF someone has been violating T & C. I say this without regard to the guilt or innocence of DAC.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This point and stance of WPEX has been stated that they do not want you to mine other players regardless if you played in the hand or not.


[/ QUOTE ]

True, but there is a difference between making it difficult and making it an asset seizure offense. If wsex is gonna be that strict then I think they should at least inform the players.

I think the hardcare lhe players understand they could get kicked off wsex potentially for using a namegrabber hud thingy, but I'm not sure they know they can have all their funds taken.

Also if it is explicity stated that hud=seizure then I think hud use on wsex would drop to near zero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely wrong. I want severe punishment for cheaters. I just want to be sure that the detection software is 100% accurate, and I want a fair ability for the player to clear himself (exactly what Fred is offering here) and an outside 3rd party check (as is the case with the gaming board) What more can you want? I don't want to play against cheaters, and I think its important that as much be done as possible. Together with the "due process" that Fred is conducting, I think its being well handled.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's great that WSEX is putting effort in preventing players from using bots.

However, to me this looks like WSEX discovered earlier already that Dac was using some bot. Then they decided to let him play, because there are not too many players at WSEX, so they didn't want to send a player away.
Then, when he wanted to cash out, they decided it was time to catch him.

I could be wrong of course, but this is what it looks like.
Also, I think it should be made more clear which 'bots' are not allowed. I understand from this thread that PT is allowed. What about AutoHotKey? What about NameGrabber?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume you are correct, that they are actually running a conspiracy to enlist people as "props" who they know are using HUDS, with the secret intention of never paying them.

Why in the world would a rake free poker room do that?

This site is hosted exclusively for "good will" puposes related to their sportsbook. A very successful, lucrative sportsbook with an impeccable reputation, I might add. It makes no sense, they have everything to lose and nothing to gain from such a hare-brained scheme. I don't use any computer assistance, have cashed repeatedly with them, and no one's pulled any fast ones on me.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh, I've played many hands w/DAC, and I wouldn't of thought he's using a bot. Very tight, yes. But not totally predictable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played with him and thought the same.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely wrong. I want severe punishment for cheaters. I just want to be sure that the detection software is 100% accurate, and I want a fair ability for the player to clear himself (exactly what Fred is offering here) and an outside 3rd party check (as is the case with the gaming board) What more can you want? I don't want to play against cheaters, and I think its important that as much be done as possible. Together with the "due process" that Fred is conducting, I think its being well handled.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the main point is that most people don't consider HUD cheating even if it is discouraged. So I think the HUD issue should be clarified and explicitly made illegal on par with bots.

2nd no check is 100% and in the OP case there was no "due process" at all until 2+2 intervened because the WSEX GM is a good guy.

As far as real bots I think a seizure of funds is a good idea. Maybe somebody could check the winholdem forums or whatever and see what the poop is over there.

[LPY2005]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...If you choose not to use programs like PT you are at a disadvantage to those that do. I chose not to, and that's my problem. I don't use it because I don't want to develop a crutch when I can't use the same sort of tool in live play.

[/ QUOTE ]


It's called observation.

Live: a maximum of 30 hands per hour, maximum of 1 table, and a maximum of 9 opponents with recognizable features to keep track of.

If you are worried that you would need such a "crutch" in that environment, I think you have bigger problems than PT and a HUD dulling your analytical powers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, but are you saying that observation can't be used playing 4-6 tables at 60-100 hands/hr per table with no physical tells? There's 10x the information to observe playing so many hands. Get it on your own instead of getting software to do it for you and level the playing field. That's what the note feature is for. If you miss some information because you are playing too many hands, well that's too damn bad. No matter what you do you are not going to be able to gather 100% of the information out there.

My main point here is that even some of the "tools" that are allowed give players that use them an advantage over those that don't and should not be allowed. If you don't agree I challenge you to turn them off and see if you do as well.

[2easy]

I'm not saying anything that you paraphrased above.

I already said what i'm saying.


You said:

[ QUOTE ]
I don't use it because I don't want to develop a crutch when I can't use the same sort of tool in live play.

[/ QUOTE ]


I find that to be silly, for the reasons I stated.

I have no reason to say anything regarding your strawman arguments, or your amended "main point."

But I don't blame you for wisely shifting the focus from what I addressed.


Edit to add: [hijack] End of thread hijack. Apologies to OP.[/hijack]