Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people."

[Aloysius]

UATrewgaz - no problem.

-Al

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it ignorant, insane or unenlightened for a man not to want to shower with a gay man, but not so for a woman uncomfortable showering with a straight man? Why are they different?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I don't think it's ignorant, insane or unenlightened. I just think it's something that big, tough professional athletes should be able to deal with. They've most likely been showering with other men since they started in sports, probably high school. So you find out one of them is gay. Now, this isn't a stranger. It's a teammate. You know he's not going to jump on you, or start jerking off in the corner.

So take another step back. You're in the shower with maybe 8-10 other naked guys. You can't just go about your business without constantly worrying that the one gay guy is ogling you specifically?

Remember, it might sound really weird to YOU, but you most likely haven't been showering with large groups of other people for most of your life.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you're saying about a lot of men vs. one man in the shower, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just saying that your analogy of one woman showering with multiple men is backwards.

Sure, a group of women might have a big problem with one man showering with them. But if you can't see why this is different than one woman with a group of men, I question whether your replies in this thread are serious, or if you're just trolling.

[Colt McCoy]

None of these analogies are good. It doesn't matter if it's many men vs one women or many women and one lesbian or whatever. The fact is that men and women feel and think differently about these things so all these analogies are useless. Most groups of men would probably not have a problem with one woman showering with them. Most groups of women probably would. Most groups of men will probably feel some discomfort with a gay man showering with them. I'm not sure what you do about it, but just dismissing it as bigotry seems pretty stupid.

(Also, as I type this I'm watching some woman out my office window hop around holding her groin like a four year old that has to pee while she hurriedly plunges coins into a parking meter. Very funny. I'll let you know if she pees her pants.)

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you do about it, but just dismissing it as bigotry seems pretty stupid.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dude I AGREE all the analogies are stupid, and I'm not dismissing any uncomfortableness as bigotry. DID YOU READ MY POST?

[Colt McCoy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you do about it, but just dismissing it as bigotry seems pretty stupid.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dude I AGREE all the analogies are stupid, and I'm not dismissing any uncomfortableness as bigotry. DID YOU READ MY POST?

[/ QUOTE ]

My response wasn't specifically directed to you. It was just a general response to the gazillion analogies that have been posted.

[MikeyPatriot]

Kudos to private joker for being tight.

To those of you arguing that a gay man showering with straight men = a man showering with a group of women...would you feel uncomfortable if an attractive female was showering with a group of men and was checking you out?

I'm not as optimistic as PJ is when it comes to sexual integration of bathrooms, but I feel it is something that will eventually come to fruition.

[kidcolin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not as optimistic as PJ is when it comes to sexual integration of bathrooms, but I feel it is something that will eventually come to fruition.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a whole other debate, I guess, but I don't see why it's something to strive for.

[DrewDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it ignorant, insane or unenlightened for a man not to want to shower with a gay man, but not so for a woman uncomfortable showering with a straight man? Why are they different?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I don't think it's ignorant, insane or unenlightened. I just think it's something that big, tough professional athletes should be able to deal with. They've most likely been showering with other men since they started in sports, probably high school. So you find out one of them is gay. Now, this isn't a stranger. It's a teammate. You know he's not going to jump on you, or start jerking off in the corner.

So take another step back. You're in the shower with maybe 8-10 other naked guys. You can't just go about your business without constantly worrying that the one gay guy is ogling you specifically?

Remember, it might sound really weird to YOU, but you most likely haven't been showering with large groups of other people for most of your life.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you're saying about a lot of men vs. one man in the shower, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just saying that your analogy of one woman showering with multiple men is backwards.

Sure, a group of women might have a big problem with one man showering with them. But if you can't see why this is different than one woman with a group of men, I question whether your replies in this thread are serious, or if you're just trolling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate the tone of this post... my main problem was with the posters who just dismissed any concerns as ridiculous.

But I still don't think you answered the question.

Why is it reasonable for women to feel uncomfortable in this situation, but not men?

Because men are used to showering with other men? Well, why don't we just have everyone shower together all the time? Then we'll get the women used to men ogling them in the shower! After all, they're not going to jump them or start jerking off in the corner. Can't these women just go about their business without constantly worrying that the guy is ogling them?

Just apply everything you said to women and then tell me why it's different.

[.Alex.]

[ QUOTE ]

But, wait, since straight men should have the right to shower without feeling like they are being "checked out", shouldn't gay men? And since we can't put the gay men with any women in the shower (bet it straight or gay), I guess we actually need group showers for straight men and straight women, and individual private showers for any gay men or gay women, you know, so everyone's right to not be checked out or be uncomfortable is upheld.


[/ QUOTE ]
You can put one gay man and one lesbian in a shower together since they wouldn't be attracted to each other. Cuts the number of gay showers in half!

[MoreWineII]

I've never really understood why pro athletes have to shower together anyway.