The state of Notre Dame football.

[Thremp]

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true...but SC is at a different point

ND seems to be building negative momentum

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True. But it'll likely remain the pre-eminent spot for college TEs going forward.

[Irishman07]

For those saying Ty was fired for racial reasons... I think thats pretty ludicrous. He just didn't put in the work necessary to be a successful recruiter. Even now at Washington, there are rumblings about his lack of effort in recruiting. His last full class, 2004, now has only 7 people left still on the team. Granted, some left because of the coaching change, but most just could not compete at a high D1 level and chose to transfer. There were only 2 OL in that class (and both of them are gone) which is absolutely ridiculous. You cannot win in the trenches with those numbers. We didn't even have enough lineman to run a 2 deep in our Spring game until this year.

The lack of success this year is not directly attributable to having such a thin senior class, but it certainly is a factor. Obviously, our O-line sucks regardless of how experienced they are. It is no guarantee they will become better, but they are all highly regarded recruits so they should get better over this year and next, at least in theory.

For those that think Notre Dame is in disarray and will never again compete with the big boys, I really think you are wrong. Really the only position where we don't have an influx of elite talent coming up is wide receiver. Hopefully that can be addressed through recruiting this year. If Weis can get most/all of the current recruits this year to stay on board despite the terrible season we will be in fantastic shape. Maybe not even next year, but by 2009 for sure. Might even avoid going winless through September.

For those questioning Weis as a coach, I agree that he's made some mistakes. I think trying to run a team exactly as you do in the NFL doesn't work. For example, most NFL practices during the season aren't extremely physical. Weis tried that here and our team has been just absolutely pushed around. He changed that before the Michigan State game, having what fifth year senior John Sullivan described as the most physical practice since he's been there and our O-line showed some semblance of blocking, opening up enough holes for a 100 yard rusher. Also, under Willingham, Maurice Stovall was pretty much awful. He dropped a ton of passes and never could get that much separation from the DB's. Weis made him lose 15-20 pounds, and Stovall became much quicker and developed into one of the better college receivers that year. There are just a lot of little things like that Weis does that Willingham didn't which is why I believe Weis will ultimately be successful.

Don't get me wrong, Willingham was a great guy - he cared about his players and carried about his business in a very classy manner... he just wasn't that great of a coach. He wasn't even going to recruit Brady Quinn until Chinedum Ndukwe's dad told him that he should really take a look at his son's high school quarterback.

[b donka]

Bigdaddydvo has some good points, but I think he's a little harsh on Ty. Steve Spurriur is legendary for working the least in the SEC, and let's not forget that Weis had his own distractions:
- his book (and book signings)
- his lawsuit
- stuff for his daughter / Hannah & Friends
- paid speaking engagements
- countless interviews for tv, radio, and print
- charity work
- alumni obligations

I closely follow college football and have never heard about Ty foresaking coaching/recruiting to play golf. Do you have any evidence other than that one quote?

Clarification on your point about early commits - this is a current trend across college football and not a function of Weis. I've found it ironic that Weis actively recruits kids who are committed to other schools (eg Chris Gallipo) yet bemoans the fact this happens to his recruits and whines when kids change thier mind. Related, it's common (but wrong) for programs to put the kids in tough positions on their recruiting visits where they're pressurred into giving a verbal.

Conrad Reuland deflection isn't all that bad other than potential reputational damage in South Orange County, a legit hotbed of talent.

[shemp]

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The principle factors I identify are:


1) Minimal contribution from the JR and SR classes

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Absolutely freaktastically pluperfectly parfait that you are 0-4, giving three touchdowns to The Purduniversity, and the number one problem is the recruiting of a guy fired close to three years ago.

And O How Do I Love Thee Irish fan that you see baby steps forward in rushing for 100 yards against Mich St in a blowout (hey, Pitt only went for 200 in a close game). And Goodness, this year is a bye, and it is so bad, that now, special consideration must go to 2009, it only follows logically, as well-- and 2008 I'm sure will see 8-4 plus a bowl loss and be such a dramatic leap forward that Irish fans will be giddy.

And O, Charlie Weis was too advanced. His big mistake was not dumbing it down for the college kid and focusing on the fundies. Hey-- maybe the problem is he is learning how to be a head coach? Maybe he'll grow into a good one. Good thing he has until 2015.

[shemp]

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Hey, Purdue's not scoring 60, it's our run defense that sucks, our pass defense is decent enough that teams so far just pound it down our throats and score points the long way, so 40 points at the most.

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Hmmm. There's a common theory about the good pass defenses of teams that can't stop the run. Hmmm.

And great job holding the Mich St aerial circus to four passing touchdowns. Definitely a baby step in the right direction for the Fighting Irish to make a defensive showing on par with Bowling Green.

[pvn]

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

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This is the same delusion that afflicts Alabama fans.

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What?

The delusion that afflicts Alabama fans is that the NCAA is out to get them (which there is *some* merit to, when you look at the severity of the sanctions they get compared to the infractions) and that Phil Fulmer is working with the russian mafia and darth vader to feed bogus info to the NCAA (somewhat less merit to this one).

Edit: can we get back to bashing ND?

[Rococo]

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

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This is the same delusion that afflicts Alabama fans.

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What?

The delusion that afflicts Alabama fans is that the NCAA is out to get them (which there is *some* merit to, when you look at the severity of the sanctions they get compared to the infractions) and that Phil Fulmer is working with the russian mafia and darth vader to feed bogus info to the NCAA (somewhat less merit to this one).

Edit: can we get back to bashing ND?

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It seems to me that most Bama fans believe that high school kids care (or should care) about "tradition" (meaning National Championships from the 1960s and 1970s) more than they do. Give it another twenty years. No one cares about how good Syracuse was when Jim Brown was running tailback there. I also think that most Bama fans don't understand that the landscape has changed in a way that will make it impossible for Bama to dominate the SEC in the way they once did. Alabama is not as rich in football talent as Georgia or Florida. Bama is surrounded by competitive schools and can't put 200 kids on "scholarship" like they did in the old days. That being said, Bama certainly can compete for SEC championships and the very occasional national championship. Georgia, Auburn and Tennessee are in the same boat.

[pvn]

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It seems to me that most Bama fans believe that high school kids care (or should care) about "tradition" (meaning National Championships from the 1960s and 1970s) more than they do.

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This is obviously a misconception. Why do you think they spent so much money to get a yankee like Saban instead of another Bear disciple?

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Alabama is not as rich in football talent as Georgia or Florida. Bama is surrounded by competitive schools and can't put 200 kids on "scholarship" like they did in the old days.

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Every other school had the same opportunity to give out four xillion scholarships. It's not like ND and Alabama and USC had some big advantage that everyone else didn't have. The football talent hasn't dried up. The surrounding schools are roughly the same. The landscape *has* changed, but not for any of the reasons that "conventional wisdom" says or the reasons you've listed.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

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This is the same delusion that afflicts Alabama fans.

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What?

The delusion that afflicts Alabama fans is that the NCAA is out to get them (which there is *some* merit to, when you look at the severity of the sanctions they get compared to the infractions) and that Phil Fulmer is working with the russian mafia and darth vader to feed bogus info to the NCAA (somewhat less merit to this one).

Edit: can we get back to bashing ND?

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It seems to me that most Bama fans believe that high school kids care (or should care) about "tradition" (meaning National Championships from the 1960s and 1970s) more than they do. Give it another twenty years. No one cares about how good Syracuse was when Jim Brown was running tailback there. I also think that most Bama fans don't understand that the landscape has changed in a way that will make it impossible for Bama to dominate the SEC in the way they once did. Alabama is not as rich in football talent as Georgia or Florida. Bama is surrounded by competitive schools and can't put 200 kids on "scholarship" like they did in the old days. That being said, Bama certainly can compete for SEC championships and the very occasional national championship. Georgia, Auburn and Tennessee are in the same boat.

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so, you're saying that there are 2 or 3 schools that should expect to be awesome these days?

USC, Florida...anyone else? Texas?

[Bigdaddydvo]

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Bigdaddydvo has some good points, but I think he's a little harsh on Ty. Steve Spurriur is legendary for working the least in the SEC, and let's not forget that Weis had his own distractions:
- his book (and book signings)
- his lawsuit
- stuff for his daughter / Hannah & Friends
- paid speaking engagements
- countless interviews for tv, radio, and print
- charity work
- alumni obligations

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Yeah, CW has a lot on his plate (insert Weis oveweight joke here) but as I said, the man works 100 hour weeks and is a time management black belt. I trust his judgment in not taking on more than he can handle.

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I closely follow college football and have never heard about Ty foresaking coaching/recruiting to play golf. Do you have any evidence other than that one quote?


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When Willingham should have been putting on the finishing touches on a sorry recruiting class at the end of the '03 season, he neglected the recruiting trail in favor of taking his assistant coaches on a week long golf junket. The class suffered enormously as a result. They are this year's seniors, and look at who we have contributing
there isn't a single true 4th year senior who is starting on offense

There are numerous stories of him hitting the ND golf course without formally registering a Tee time, ostensibly to prevent anyone from finding out how much time he actually spent on the golf course and away from his team.