ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[Exitonly]

it's not HIS responsibility to make the poker world free of corruption.

your problem shouuld be w/ the pokerooms themselves and they're effort to find the cheats.

[El Diablo]

N82,

Take out the tournaments where ZJ was multiaccounting (and potentially cheating by chip-dumping and other means) and look at his tourney record. This was done in a thread after he had one of his big wins. I think it's pretty easy based on that to say that he's an average or losing MTT player when he doesn't cheat. His cheating is quite possibly the primary reason for what tourney success he has had.

When we look at motivation, I think it is worth looking at the fact that ZJ was trying to build up an image as an online tourney superstar, yet was a losing player over many hundreds of these tournaments. He needed some wins to compete with all the young tourney guys making a name for themselves. Not surprising that he resorted to multi-accounting and I think it's naive to believe that he didn't resort to other tactics.

So, yes, it is very fair for people to say that the whole image of a winning tourney player that ZJ has gone out of his way to portray himself as on his website and online forums is a complete sham.

I do not dispute that ZJ is a winning STT player.

[BluffTHIS!]

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shaniac,

When are you going to grow some balls and ditch your cheater friends and turn in those other cheats you know to stop all these tourney players here from being cheated by them tomorrow and every day after that?

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You are treading the line between debate and unneeded flaming. Keep this in mind.
~Justin

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Justin,

I realize that. And that I am grinding the same axe. But as I said in sirio's other thread asking where all this should go from here, this issue is very important. And all honest 2+2'ers here should have a separate thread to discuss their stance toward those here who are aiding cheaters screwing all of them by not doing something about it. And all the "difficulty" and "dilemma" with this issue really has to do with choosing to be friends with cheaters and valuing that friendship more highly than that with their fellow honest posters who are being stolen from, as well the integrity of online poker.

[El Diablo]

N,

"I am very confident that he would not chip dump to his ZeeJustin account in order to win on that one. "

Would you have been confident, prior to this news coming out, that ZJ would not have SIX ACCOUNTS to regularly and systematically enter into MTTs?

[jedinemesis]

There are easy ways around this, but I'll leave it to the cheats to think them up on their own, I don't want to give them any ideas.

Will

[Spee]

Seconded.

And let's not forget about greed being another line of demarcation between friendship and condoning cheating and other forms of unethical play.

[THEOSU]

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shaniac,

When are you going to grow some balls and ditch your cheater friends and turn in those other cheats you know to stop all these tourney players here from being cheated by them tomorrow and every day after that?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are treading the line between debate and unneeded flaming. Keep this in mind.
~Justin

[/ QUOTE ]


Justin,

I realize that. And that I am grinding the same axe. But as I said in sirio's other thread asking where all this should go from here, this issue is very important. And all honest 2+2'ers here should have a separate thread to discuss their stance toward those here who are aiding cheaters screwing all of them by not doing something about it. And all the "difficulty" and "dilemma" with this issue really has to do with choosing to be friends with cheaters and valuing that friendship more highly than that with their fellow honest posters who are being stolen from, as well the integrity of online poker.

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You are aware that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar, right?

[bearly]

the shana hiatt had over a million hits

[BluffTHIS!]

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You are aware that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar, right?

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I am exposing the the BS of the cheaters' silent allies for the dung heap that it is. That is what attracts flies.

[N 82 50 24]

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N82,

Take out the tournaments where ZJ was multiaccounting (and potentially cheating by chip-dumping and other means) and look at his tourney record. This was done in a thread after he had one of his big wins. I think it's pretty easy based on that to say that he's an average or losing MTT player when he doesn't cheat. His cheating is quite possibly the primary reason for what tourney success he has had.

When we look at motivation, I think it is worth looking at the fact that ZJ was trying to build up an image as an online tourney superstar, yet was a losing player over many hundreds of these tournaments. He needed some wins to compete with all the young tourney guys making a name for themselves. Not surprising that he resorted to multi-accounting and I think it's naive to believe that he didn't resort to other tactics.

So, yes, it is very fair for people to say that the whole image of a winning tourney player that ZJ has gone out of his way to portray himself as on his website and online forums is a complete sham.

I do not dispute that ZJ is a winning STT player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what tournaments he was or was not multi-accounting in. I'm fairly confident that he didn't have six accounts in any tournament on Stars. Therefore, I don't even know how to compare his record. I did post a thread about his Stars record after he won the $215, but I don't see how it's relevant to bring that information into this discussion.

I guess my issue is that I think an average or losing tourney player would have incentive to not multi-account. Just playing more accounts doesn't turn you into a better player. Actually, I think it would hurt him by making him pay less attention to the tables that he's playing. I know there's an advantage in terms of the possible collusion and whatnot, but I just don't think that's a good reason to put multiple people into an MTT. Anyone skilled at collusion with the willingness to cheat would head straight for the big cash games. I know Justin wanted to win multis both for recognition and for the money, but I don't think he ever expected that this activity would increase his recognition. It actually makes it fairly likely that one of his private names would win and that he wouldn't be able to tell anyone.

I do understand that people are suspicious of all of his winnings at this point and that's okay. I just don't see it that way. I see it as someone who wasn't satisfied with what he would win on one account, so he created more in order to multiply his winnings and beat the game faster. And in terms of the STT things, he saw his edge slipping with his name and wanted to boost it back to its original state by playing on unknown names. Both are definitely cheating the honest players, but they don't mean he wouldn't win without his activities IMO.