ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[matrix]

Been playing the new Arctic Monkeys album to myself recently - it's rather good...As I have little better to do and this album is one of my favourites right now I thought I'd get all topical and rework some of the lyrics to WHEN THE SUN GOES DOWN.

Which is track 11 - and possibly the best song on there.

So I present WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN(the Scumbag song) in "honour" of ZJ as this has been running through my head all day I thought would share.

I thought my contribution to this mammoth thread ought to be a little different as just about every angle seems to have been covered now...

If you've not listened to this album BTW "Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am - Thats What I'm Not" then it's highly recommended that you do.

whos that guy there?
I wonder how it is that
he can survive five bad beats
He says he doesn't chip dump
but I doubt he keeps receipts
It's all not quite legitimate.

What a scummy man
just give him half a chance
I'll bet he'll rob you if he can
Can see it in his eyes
He's got a PartyPoker ban
amongst some other offences.

I've heard he plays tourneys all night
Sng's and MTTs, 6 entries - thats right
Now that he's been found out - he's still not seen the light

That Zee's a scumbag don't you know
A cheating scumbag don't you know...


Although you're trying hard to play fair
Opening more tables so you don't collude
You say that you're not really cheating
Sorry mate - but that is just quite rude

You must be up to summat
What are the chances? - sure it's more than likely
I've got this feeling in my stomach
I wonder what your next story might be

They say it changes when the chips are down
They say it changes when the chips are down
They say it changes when the chips are down
Round here.

Have you read his Bull [censored] statement
Trying to sound like it's Innocuous
As tho he don't know what he's doing
We think Zee has just [censored] up.

We're all delighted he's been found out
Posting here - and giving him what for
Because he can't keep stealing profit
Now that Partypokers shown him the door.

It won't stop just with Justin - no.

They say it changes when the chips are down
They say it changes when the chips are down
They say it changes when the chips are down
Round here.

What a scummy man
Just give him half a chance
I bet he'll rob you if he can
Can see it in his eyes that he's got a nasty plan
I hope you're not involved at all.

I hope you're not involved at all....

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Exclusive/El Capitano case was very different. When you ask your friend to play instead of you for a part of a tournament, it's not the same as creating multiple accounts by one person. You might not believe that Noah/Marcel did the first and not the second, but that what Stars concluded. Furthermore Stars changed the rules to clarify what's allowed and what not.

Why don't you read the posts in the thread related to this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe that to be the case (that he asked him to play for him).

Also, the same rules were broken during the WCOOP, which occurred after Stars made a rule change.

If we're going to argue about whether it was Exclusive's plan to take over El Cap or whether he played it the whole time, then this is pointless because we simply don't know. But my suspicion is that it was planned and that explanation was just a cover to satisfy the fans (and a better explanation than taking over for a grandmother, which might be why it worked with some people).

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here, here. The Meower deserves a medal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, for one, am rather shocked that no one has suggested yet (probably due to fear of the wrath of the moral gestapo) that the Meower deserves nothing more than a piece of cheese.

One can come down in opposition to cheating (as do I), while at the same time coming down in opposition to ratting out 19 year old kids who used some bad judgement. How much of the Meower's motives are derived from his moral compass, vis-a-vis the quantity derived from his jealousy and/or search for stardom on the chatboards?

[/ QUOTE ]

So? Someone's motives have to be absolutely pure for them to act right? There's plenty of schaudenfraude all over this thread, and lots of people who are more glad that such a 'popular' MTT player took it in the face rather than that a cheater was caught.

Furthermore, passing off cheating as 'bad judgement' is an excuse - EVERYONE knows cheating is wrong, and everyone knows what constitutes cheating. Ignorance or youth just isn't an excuse here - ZJ obviously knew what he was doing, knew what he was doing was wrong, and did it anyway.

[Spee]

Normally I like reading your posts, but this one is so ridiculous I cannot believe that you or others have these sentiments.

THE ONLY LAWS IN PLACE HERE ARE THOSE GOVERNING VIOLATION OF THE INTERSTATE WIRE ACT AND INTERNAL REVENUE CODE!

To speculate about legal proceedings by or against international companies based outside the US is ludicrous!

There only legal proceedings that these people should be worried about are those brought against them.

IMHO, this is potentially a HUGE problem for them, and they are quite likely to be completely defenseless because a lot of the evidence is out in the public domain.

BOTTOM LINE: Don't say anything on the internet that you wouldn't want to come back and bite you in the a*s on later on.

All the caught cheats and those yet to be caught should be sweating a bit.

As far as the true punishment, the best possible way to punish someone is to prevent them from playing. I don't think a five or ten year ban from all B&M tourneys is out of the question or the realm of possibility.

[Raydain]

Could someone link me the JJProdigy thing. I suck at using the search feature

[raisins]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
N82,

"Also, what ZJ isn't the same as what some people do on a day-to-day basis. If anyone thinks putting six accounts is equivalent to sitting three people each at the pot limit omaha cash game tables and running a computer program that helps you figure out dead outs, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about. "

Are you aware of people doing that?

[/ QUOTE ]

El D,

I've heard third hand stories (like, no one I know does this or has admitted it to me) about people who employ multiple computers in the same room, programs that scramble IP adresses, and other such things to collude online cash games.

I'm sure the most serious, agressive and outright cheeating is directed at high-stakes cash games, although I have no idea what the extent of it is.

Also, I'm pretty sure that there are people who have the technology and the discretion to continue multi-accounting MTTs after this whole thing dies down.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were some allegations on the Omaha 8 board a few months ago about there being collusion on the PS 75/150 O8 game. I remember one poster saying that he played live with one of the cheaters and the guy told him that there were about four of them and the knowledge of dead cards allowed them to destroy the game. I hate the witch hunt atmosphere that this thread is showing in places but this is important and a real enough danger to bring to people's attention. And since we're on the subject it's appropriate to mention.

The problem is I doubt there are algorithms sophisticated enough for the poker sites to detect collusion when card knowledge is the only tool they use. There is some cunning there in their restraint. Omaha in all its forms will probably die out on the internet because of this cheating avenue.

raisins

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, a significant % of his winnings could be attributed to his multiaccounting activities, but not everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're neglecting an issue that many people brought up, which is that being able to anonymize more effectively with that many accounts allowed him, by his own admission, to profit much more than he otherwise might have in the SNGs that were his bread and butter. I don't think this is the same thing as just effectively playing more tournaments. And even if it is . . .


[ QUOTE ]
but I want to make sure people understand that he didn't need to do this to be a winner. And that has NOTHING to do with apologizing for his actions. I'm just trying to make sure that people understand the facts.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the relevance of this? Or are you saying that it's okay to impugn his character, but if we cross the line into impugning his poker skill we've really gone too far?

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone link me the JJProdigy thing. I suck at using the search feature

[/ QUOTE ]


It should be stickied, not locked.
web page

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone link me the JJProdigy thing. I suck at using the search feature

[/ QUOTE ]

Just username search JJProdigy. I'm pretty sure thats the last time he has posted on here. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
curtains,

I think I have made my views clear with my exchange with shaniac last nite that I think those who knew of cheating going on, but failed to turn them in after warning them, or disassociate themselves from them at the very least, are in the wrong. But that certainly doesn't merit accusations that those of you were also doing the same thing.

But it nonetheless remains, that you and others knew players here that you post with day in and day out, were being cheated as you yourselves were too of course, and yet failed to even come here and start a generic thread without mentioning names, warning your fellow 2+2'ers that they were being cheated in general so that they could complain to the poker sites and get them to investigate larger buyin tourneys and even SNGs.

If you don't see it that way, and especially if you think your friendship with cheaters precluded you from making such an explicit anonymous warning, which from you as a respected poster presumably would have been taken at face value, then you are lacking in both ethics yourself as well as a sense of common purpose with other 2+2'ers.

And if you don't like what I have just said and ignore me in the future, then fine. That only means you aren't man enough to see how others who weren't in know view both the cheating and the failure of those in the know to take any action whatsoever about same, and to admit as well that you have some minimal responsibility even when friends admit such wrongdoing to you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Dude I know no cheaters. I don't think you understand for just how short a period of time I was aware of the ZJ situaton.