The Mike Vick case... am I a life nit?

[Blarg]

The efficacy of the justice system or the talent of the average lawyer isn't what's being discussed when you are talking about what people are charged with. There's a long way between whatever charges are filed and what people get convicted for.

[DrewDevil]

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drew,

do you seriously not understand that mike vick did more than just beat up a dog? or even a few dogs? why do you not grasp this very simple fact?

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Sigh...

Do you seriously get that from reading my posts?

Okay, once again, for the last time.

My opinion is that BEATING UP a woman is worse than KILLING a dog, or dogs.

Therefore, it is my opinion that the punishment for beating up a woman should be greater than the punishment for killing dogs.

However, there are numerous players in the major sports leagues who have beaten up their girlfriends and wives, and not only did not serve jail time but were never suspended by their leagues. Meanwhile, Vick is going to jail for at least a year and may never play in the NFL again.

IN MY OPINION, THAT IS UNJUST AND STUPID, because (see above).

Everyone still with me? I mean, even if you don't agree, do you at least understand the progression???

Also, my opinion is that RAPING a woman is worse than TORTURING AND KILLING ALL THE DOGS ON EARTH.

Why?

BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST DOGS.

NOT HUMANS.

[DrewDevil]

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The efficacy of the justice system or the talent of the average lawyer isn't what's being discussed when you are talking about what people are charged with. There's a long way between whatever charges are filed and what people get convicted for.

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Vick is pleading out his case just like a lot of wife abusers do. They get probation, he's going to jail for a year or more.

How is this not relevant? I mean, hooray if the sentences are "on the books" as being real tough on domestic violence... doesn't much matter if they consistently get pleaded down to no jail time.

[DrewDevil]

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Most people who commit domestic violence do not serve any time on the first offense.

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Source?

I suspect that much of these "facts" you keep spouting are just pulled out of your ass.

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he's right, you usually spend the night in jail, but unless you have some kind of priors the most likely sentence is anger management counseling, maybe some fines or community service, probation, etc.

but, since drew is insisting on comparing this directly to domestic violence, the most common sentence for a first-time animal abuser is usually even less. a fine. they take your pets. nobody goes to jail for that either.

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But Vick, because he's famous?, is going to jail for a year or more and his career is over.

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what vick did is systematically abuse and exploit animals for profit over a number of years. what do you suppose you get for your 20th assault charge against a human, drew?

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This is Vick's first charge.



[/ QUOTE ]on top of that, vick didn't just organize a gambling operation. he organized the brutalization of animals, which hundreds of people participated in or witnessed. if you want to compare it to humans again, which is stupid anyway, he ordered hundreds of assaults or tortures or murders over a period of years, and paid for them to take place. that is organized crime.

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But the "organized crime" allegations are based on the gambling and conspiracy, not the cruelty to animals. That's what I was responding to.

You're equating what happened to those dogs to assault/torture/murder, and I understand a lot of people feel the same way. I don't.

[pergesu]

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Are you the kind of mod who argues in a thread and then bans people who disagree with him?

It's a torturing/killing dogs vs. beating up women thing, then.

If first-time woman beaters don't usually get jail time, then neither should Vick, because beating up women = worse than killing dogs. IMO.

And WTF at people saying you can't compare the two... that's exactly how punishments and sentencing are determined!! Is this crime worse than x crime? That's how it's done, for cripes' sake.

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The meat of the charges is coming from the fact that what he did essentially amounts to organized crime. So you can say that it's comparing killing dogs to beating women all you want, but it's the wrong comparison. To use your arguments, you need to compare beating up women to organized crime. When you do that I think you'll find that the punishment is just what you'd expect given the degree Vick went in this endeavor.

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Oh, come on now. The "organized crime" is the operation of a dogfighting ring, for cripes' sake. And allowing gambling on it.

I don't think gambling or taking dogs across state lines should be illegal, so yeah, I guess I still think wife-beating is worse than the "organized crime" Vick is charged with.

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Okay. So we know that dogfighting, gambling on dogfighting, and torturing/murdering dogs is illegal, right? It's fine if you want to say that the penalties for those activities shouldn't be very severe. However, here's what Vick did:

<ul type="square">[*]Bought a property exclusively for dogfights[*]Bought and trained dogs to be used exclusively for dogfights[*]Managed and placed bets on these fights[/list]
Allegedly.

This isn't a couple of guys in a back alley letting two dogs go at it. Vick funded and headed this whole thing with the intent to break the law. That level of organization always receives a harsher punishment than just engaging in the activities. The key is not really the illegal activity itself, but how much money and effort was used in order to commit these illegal activities.

[NT!]

Drew,

So basically, you are arguing that, because something happened in the past that you didn't like, the way someone else is treated in a different justice system (federal court) and under a different set of rules and laws, and by a different league conduct policy is too harsh, and he should get off for it?

In other words, that because the justice system failed what you think is fair in the past, a brutal and calculating criminal enterprise should also be unpunished? Why? What possible justification can there be for that?

What punishment does Vick deserve, in your book, for profiting from the torture, mutilation and death of hundreds of animals? For conspiring to expose hundreds, or even thousands of other people to same? Anger management counseling? Probation?

[NT!]

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This is Vick's first charge.

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if you were caught on tape beating up 20 different women, would you write it off as your 'first charge'? i mean he is charged with many, many distinct and documented criminal acts. it would be more accurate to say this is his first SET of CHARGES, because he is being charged with many crimes at once.

seriously, you should stop posting if this is your idea of logic. i am getting sick of reading this crap.

[NT!]

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You're equating what happened to those dogs to assault/torture/murder, and I understand a lot of people feel the same way. I don't.

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no, i'm not. if i was doing that i would say he deserves to go away for life. YOU are the one who is constantly making irrelevant comparisons to crimes against humans, not anybody else in this thread.

[DrewDevil]

I don't really think Vick deserves jail time for this.

I love dogs, but they're just dogs. I think the outrage is because dogs are companion animals and they're cute. If this was a cockfighting enterprise, etc., I don't think the outcry would have been near as great and Vick wouldn't be going to jail. A big fine, maybe.

[dknightx]

where do you keep pulling this "hundreds of animals" number from? The cnn article says:

and that the three men "executed approximately eight dogs"