The 10 college players I was most wrong about

[Vyse]

Fly, it's more fun to laugh at Assani than to try to convince him.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]

So when Minnesota was playing a Nestrovic/Smith/Garnett frontcourt, which one of them could play the 2?

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I think you're thinking from a defensive perspective, which I have been very clear I am not. I'll be honest- I don't get to watch many TWolves games so I've never seen those 3 on the court at the same time(at least not that I remember). However, I can guarantee you that they don't have 3 guys standing in the paint clogging it up. One of them plays the wing(2 or 3, as I've said they're interchangeable). Whomever is playing the 3 there could be called the 2 if you want....it doesn't matter as they do the same thing on offense.


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If the 3 is not Shareef Abdur-Rahim's main position, what is?


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I'm more convinced than ever that you have no clue what you're talking about now....

NBA.com lists him as a center: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sharee...him/index.html

Yahoo sports lists him as a "forward-center" and I'm pretty sure that when someone is listed as "F-C" they're talking PF, not SF: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3098

Those are the two main sites I use...feel free to look up others.


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You're going to go down fighting on the claim no team has ever regularly played non-interchangeable players at the 2 and 3 when the Denver Nuggets play 2 such players right now?


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I assume you're talking about Iverson and Carmelo, right? Again, I'll ask you: So if the coach told them to switch positions on offense what exactly do you envision happening? Clearly since they're not interchangeable to you, you must think that the team would just fall apart doing that, right? My contention is that there would be no change whatsoever.

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No one changes their offensive style based on what position they play

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WTF? This makes it sound like you're agreeing with me now. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


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What does "play the 2 on offense" even mean?

[/ QUOTE ] So wait...you're arguing with me that a 3 can't play the 2 on offense, yet you don't know what it means? How can you argue against it then?

Every team has offensive plays. The plays call for each position to do something. The plays call for each position to do something. The center will do one thing, the power forward will do something else, and so on and so on. What I'm telling you is that the basic responsibilities of the SG and SF on 99% of basketball plays require skills that are had by 2s and 3s in a nearly identical way.

Now coaches may instruct their players to do things differently to suit their skills. For example if the Heat run a play for Dwyane Wade to get an open shot, it will probably be a mid range shot and not a 3. But if the Sonics run a play for Ray Allen they'll probably want him getting an open look from 3.

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On offense in basketball there is the point guard and then everyone else does whatever they are good at.


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This is just flat out wrong, and I'm pretty sure now that you've never played organized basketball in your life. There are tons of plays and sets in basketball. While the NBA certainly has more isolations than college, they still run a certain play to get the guy open even if its just a simple screen and the clearout. You make it sound as if the PG just brings down the ball and everyone freelances and "does what they're good at." Most teams do have a general "basic" offense to fall back on if plays collapse- this is usually an iso or a pick and roll.



I don't really think I'm getting through to you, so I'll try to give an example.....The most popular and basic basketball play that I can think of is "America's play." We ran it(often times with me as the shooter) and nearly every team I've ever seen has it in their playbook.

We ran a slightly different variation that this, but the principles are the same:

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/AmericaPlay.html

Take a look at the play and ask yourself "Could they run the same play to the other side?" The answer is a clear "yes" and almost all offenses put in the option for the PG to run it either way. The shooting range of the wing player would determine whether or not he popped out all the way to the 3 point line or not though, but that doesn't change the play overall.




Now I will admit that not every play contains the option to run it to either side. However, the skillset needed to run the play from the 2 or the 3 is the exact same.

You can search for a ton of basketball plays on the internet. Please show me one play that you don't think Carmelo Anthony would be effective at the 2 spot if his team were running it.

[Vyse]

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I'm more convinced than ever that you have no clue what you're talking about now....

NBA.com lists him as a center: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sharee...him/index.html

Yahoo sports lists him as a "forward-center" and I'm pretty sure that when someone is listed as "F-C" they're talking PF, not SF: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3098

Those are the two main sites I use...feel free to look up others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yahoo lists Carmelo Anthony as a small forward:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3706

NBA.com lists him as a Forward:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carmelo_anthony/

Those are the two sites YOU use, and they prove you wrong. lolololol

[FlyWf]

Assani- Rahim has gotten old and slow and can no longer guard SFs. He played SF for the Grizzlies for many years. That you apparently have no idea what I'm talking about(nor do you apparently remember Garnett's tenure as the starting 3) indicates that we might be on a different level of knowledge regarding the NBA.

"This is just flat out wrong, and I'm pretty sure now that you've never played organized basketball in your life. There are tons of plays and sets in basketball. "

I never said otherwise. People's roles in those plays are entirely determined by their skillset. You'll run a play to get Mehmet Okur or Rasheed Wallace an open 3 even though they play the 4, but they are still playing the 4 or 5.

You originally started this by claiming Carmelo Anthony was a guard in the midst of some [censored] stat manipulating. You later extended that to the argument that NO ONE is a small forward, that the very position of small forward does not exist.

[DrewDevil]

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JJ reddick is another trajan langdon typical duke BUST

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Please take a moment and list all the schools that have more talent in the NBA than Duke.

[capone0]

I guess you mean right now. It's going to be tough to match. All-time I'm not sure where they are on the list, but I think UNC, UCLA probally have an edge.

Right now NBA.

1) Duke
2) UConn
3) UNC
4) Arizona
5) Kansas
6) MSU
7) Kentucky

Others with good rep but small #s. Wake, GT, BAMA, Florida, Maryland, Cuse.

Honestly though, the best is HS.

Amare
Dwight Howard
Lebron
Kobe
Tracy
KG
Curry
Chandler

Monta
Harrington

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
Assani- Rahim has gotten old and slow and can no longer guard SFs. He played SF for the Grizzlies for many years. That you apparently have no idea what I'm talking about(nor do you apparently remember Garnett's tenure as the starting 3) indicates that we might be on a different level of knowledge regarding the NBA.

"This is just flat out wrong, and I'm pretty sure now that you've never played organized basketball in your life. There are tons of plays and sets in basketball. "

I never said otherwise. People's roles in those plays are entirely determined by their skillset. You'll run a play to get Mehmet Okur or Rasheed Wallace an open 3 even though they play the 4, but they are still playing the 4 or 5.

You originally started this by claiming Carmelo Anthony was a guard in the midst of some [censored] stat manipulating. You later extended that to the argument that NO ONE is a small forward, that the very position of small forward does not exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wtf are you disagreeing with me about? I don't even understand your position anymore.

You're right...this argument started because I was talking about an offensive stat(FG%) and Carmelo's relation to other guards. Someone said he wasn't a guard, and I said that on offense there was no difference and that most knowledgable basketball people define players as PGs, wings, and bigs rather than the more common 5 positions that the everyday fan knows. Futhermore even if you want to use the SF name, then theres no difference offensively between a SF's role and a SG's role so my original statement about comparing Carmelo's FG% to other "guards" was still valid.

I'm beginning to think that you don't even disagree with me at all but are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Furthermore, its pretty frustrating when clearly you realize that I've been around the game a lot more and therefore probably have more "inside" knowledge....yet instead of actually listening when I say something that I feel as if I've learned from that, you just want to argue(seemingly when you don't even really disagree!!).

[Assani Fisher]

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Assani- Rahim has gotten old and slow and can no longer guard SFs . He played SF for the Grizzlies for many years. That you apparently have no idea what I'm talking about(nor do you apparently remember Garnett's tenure as the starting 3) indicates that we might be on a different level of knowledge regarding the NBA.


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Again YOU'RE TALKING POSITIONS AS THEY RELATE TO DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry for the caps, but I don't know how else I can get through to you that I'm speaking strictly from an offensive perspective.

[kidcolin]

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I'm beginning to think that you don't even disagree with me at all but are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assani,

YOU ARE THE ONE IN LOVE WITH ARGUING! I've never seen you drop an issue. Not once. I don't know why you let guys like Vyse, Fly, donkey, thayer, etc get to you, but you do, EVERY goddamn time. And after about 2 back-and-forths of good posting on both sides (cept Vyse), it turns into a 3 page circular retard fest of "not hah"/"yessa". Jesus.

Besides, I still think you're wrong with regards to 'Melo. His offensive game isn't a typical 2s game. He thrives on the baseline, playing the midrange, and banging in the paint.

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[Ostertag] frustrated the hell out of sloan because of his inconsistantcy

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Pretty sure he was the inspiration for the clumsy European guy in Celtic Pride.

[FlyWf]

"So wtf are you disagreeing with me about? "

That Carmelo Anthony plays small forward, and that in fact the position of "small forward" exists and is not a term that casual fans invented for no particular reason.

As was originally noted, Carmelo's good FG% among top scorers can partially be attributed to the fact that he takes many fewer long jumpers than most of the other high scoring wings. Compare his 3 pointers attempted per game to the other high scorers.