cash out curse on Stars

[Josem]

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I'm done explaining to you why this isn't criminal.

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But you haven't even addressed one of the laws that I quoted!

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Besides the fact that even by the sites admission it's partly a game of luck or chance.

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What relevance does this have?

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Casinos rigg slots to give the house an advantage, this is perfectly legal.

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If the slot machines were rigged to give certain players an advantage, that would be illegal.

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In most cases it more profitable to pay the fine and leave the slots rigged at a higher %.

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...which is irrelevant to this case.

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There's nothing illegal about rigging the rng.

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Yes, there is. That would be fraud. That is illegal. It is fairly self-evident.

The common sense test to determine a fraud is:
a) Does the activity cheat people?
b) Is the activity unfair?

If A + B are true, that would be a pretty clear cut example of a fraud. Do you doubt A or B?

[realjaydub]

Sweet, user ignored.


*** You are ignoring this user ***

[Josem]

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You kept qouting Canadian laws and told me I should report them...

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No, I have not quoted a single Candadian law. You continue to lie like a lying liar that lies.

I don't think I've ever even read any Canadian laws, let alone know where to find them online.

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You know Mounties are Canadian Police?

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Yes. I also know that grass is green. What does this matter to this discussion?

[OnlinePro]

If people hate these threads so much, than how come there is always a million posts defending pokerstars.

The integrity of this forum is very questionable, and very bias. I wouldnt trust the opinions of 95% of people on this forum because they all have motive in making you believe its not rigged.

[realjaydub]

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If people hate these threads so much, than how come there is always a million posts defending pokerstars.

The integrity of this forum is very questionable, and very bias. I wouldnt trust the opinions of 95% of people on this forum because they all have motive in making you believe its not rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

There's definitely something to be said about it.

I'm sure pokerstars give these guys something for their time.

[Josem]

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If people hate these threads so much, than how come there is always a million posts defending pokerstars.

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The same reason that people slow down around accidents - the morbid curiosity of seeing something gory.

In this case, it is the abysmal logic of the muppets claiming that online poker is rigged.

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The integrity of this forum is very questionable, and very bias.

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So respond to the issues, rather than the personalities.

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I wouldnt trust the opinions of 95% of people on this forum because they all have motive in making you believe its not rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]
What motive is that?

[benfranklin]

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Just prove the rng is legit.

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The absurdity of this statement in and of itself proves that your lack of training in, and lack of understanding of, math and statistics makes any attempt at rational discussion on the subject pointless and futile.

I would suggest that some education in these areas would show you the errors of your positions and assumptions.

[/ QUOTE ]


"Absurdity" ORLY? Is it so absurd pokerstars tries to prove it's legit by saying Cigital put it's stamp of approval on it? It's just absurd someone wants to know if a piece of software is legit,, just absurd I tell you.

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The absurdity is in asking someone to prove that a RNG is "legit", by which I assume you mean that it is really random. Your statement here, and all of your posts in this thread, shows that you don't understand what a RNG is or how it works, and that you don't understand what a mathematical or logical proof is.

For your highly thought-out response, please insert no more than 5 juvenile personal insults here:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

[Bobo Fett]

I'll try this one more time, although it's likely a waste of time.

Many people who post here (myself included) have NEVER said that we are 100% certain that a site couldn't be rigged. All we have been asking for is some kind of evidence, beyond your own recollections of what's happened to you.

Some have asked that we prove sites are NOT rigged. I'm not sure how exactly this is supposed to happen. How does one prove a negative? Whatever stats one of us shows, the argument could just be that it only happens after cashouts, or it only happens to some people, or it only happens on Tuesdays, or what have you. The only way to prove it would be to be able to show every hand every played at a site. If somehow one of us were able to get our hands on the RNG algorithim, one could argue that they don't always use it...they have a second "rigged" one we missed. The same would go for any regulatory body that checked the same...perhaps they were misled in some way, or paid off, or some such thing. And then there is the school of thought that sites are rigged in a subtle way that could never be discovered even by looking at the numbers...that things are tweaked one way for some people, and the opposite for others, so that they even out. We will NEVER be able to prove, to everyone's satisfaction, that a given site is not rigged. NEVER. If you believe that a site (or sites) are rigged, and you are waiting for this proof from someone to change your mind, you're wasting your time. If you're convinced, don't play at that site or sites any more. End of discussion.

Now, if there was something amiss, something so obvious that you are able to spot it just by simple observation, then it will be VERY easy for you to provide evidence of this. If this is happening so frequently, would there not be somebody out there with a DB of a few hundred thousand hands that could show us? I await just such a person.

Hopefully when the chorus of naysayers comes gunning for this post, they are able to respond in some well-thought out manner, without hurling insults and invective or making false, unfounded accusations. One can hope, right?

A couple of things I should add - I am not an affiliate, I do not work for a poker site, and I have never experienced a "cash out curse" at ANY site.

[realjaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]

Just prove the rng is legit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The absurdity of this statement in and of itself proves that your lack of training in, and lack of understanding of, math and statistics makes any attempt at rational discussion on the subject pointless and futile.

I would suggest that some education in these areas would show you the errors of your positions and assumptions.

[/ QUOTE ]


"Absurdity" ORLY? Is it so absurd pokerstars tries to prove it's legit by saying Cigital put it's stamp of approval on it? It's just absurd someone wants to know if a piece of software is legit,, just absurd I tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The absurdity is in asking someone to prove that a RNG is "legit", by which I assume you mean that it is really random. Your statement here, and all of your posts in this thread, shows that you don't understand what a RNG is or how it works, and that you don't understand what a mathematical or logical proof is.

For your highly thought-out response, please insert no more than 5 juvenile personal insults here:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

[/ QUOTE ]


ORLY

I do understand how a RNG works, do you always talk down to people?


Please share your deep mathematical understanding and how this works with software to make it completely random.

[realjaydub]

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I'll try this one more time, although it's likely a waste of time.

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I'm listening.

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Many people who post here (myself included) have NEVER said that we are 100% certain that a site couldn't be rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why are the three tards getting so heated I have a different opinion?

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All we have been asking for is some kind of evidence, beyond your own recollections of what's happened to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this is frustrating. I would share if I had my hands saved.

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Some have asked that we prove sites are NOT rigged. I'm not sure how exactly this is supposed to happen. How does one prove a negative? Whatever stats one of us shows, the argument could just be that it only happens after cashouts, or it only happens to some people, or it only happens on Tuesdays, or what have you. The only way to prove it would be to be able to show every hand every played at a site. If somehow one of us were able to get our hands on the RNG algorithim, one could argue that they don't always use it...they have a second "rigged" one we missed. The same would go for any regulatory body that checked the same...perhaps they were misled in some way, or paid off, or some such thing. And then there is the school of thought that sites are rigged in a subtle way that could never be discovered even by looking at the numbers...that things are tweaked one way for some people, and the opposite for others, so that they even out. We will NEVER be able to prove, to everyone's satisfaction, that a given site is not rigged. NEVER. If you believe that a site (or sites) are rigged, and you are waiting for this proof from someone to change your mind, you're wasting your time. If you're convinced, don't play at that site or sites any more. End of discussion.


[/ QUOTE ]


I can live with that. If it's truly legit, pokerstars would give up everything involving their rng or better yet let cigital release their results and how they were able to test their rng.


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Now, if there was something amiss, something so obvious that you are able to spot it just by simple observation, then it will be VERY easy for you to provide evidence of this. If this is happening so frequently, would there not be somebody out there with a DB of a few hundred thousand hands that could show us? I await just such a person.

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Me too.

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Hopefully when the chorus of naysayers comes gunning for this post, they are able to respond in some well-thought out manner, without hurling insults and invective or making false, unfounded accusations. One can hope, right?

A couple of things I should add - I am not an affiliate, I do not work for a poker site, and I have never experienced a "cash out curse" at ANY site.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for your time on this issue.