Capital Punishment For Murderers

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same holds true for the arguments of the other side, correct?

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Perhaps. Im not sure of the details of that argument. I think whichever is cheaper should be done. And it is certainly cheaper to execute if we trim down the appeals process. As is things are about even.

[jjacky]

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I believe that the issue can be decided without emotions or high falootin philosophy or religion. Assuming we are talking about cold blooded murders, committed by "sane" defendents, I see the following four things as objective reasons to be for or against the punishment, as opposed to life without parole.

1. Will it dissuade others from committing murder?

2. Is there more than a micro chance that the life sentence will allow an eventual release or escape?

3. Does it cost more to keep him alive?

4. Is there more than a micro chance that the defendent is innocent?

There may be other factors that deserve consideration that I haven't thought of but I doubt it.

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1 more consideration: Your 8 times more likely to hit death row for murder if your black, than if your white and commit the same crime.

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not that i doubt it, but do you have a source?

[AlienBoy]

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A giant sea tortoise has more cells and a longer lifespan than a human. Is it thus a more valuable creature than humans?

Come on now, surely someone can give it a better try than this.

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I was only attacking your first statement, that a human has no more worth than ANY other creature.

Dolphins have a bigger brian than a human, for instance, but we were not comparing a human to a dolphin, but a human to all other creatures.


Regardless, here's another argument:


There is no such thing as "worth" in any universal sense - it is an entirely human concept, rooted in the human ego. As such, it is defined as a human may define it. Thus a human can simply define humankind as "more worthy" as it is a value based judgment that arises from human ego in the first place.

AB

[jjacky]

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same holds true for the arguments of the other side, correct?

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Perhaps. Im not sure of the details of that argument. I think whichever is cheaper should be done. And it is certainly cheaper to execute if we trim down the appeals process. As is things are about even.

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we can't agree how much one life is worth. but a $ is a $. so we execute people at whim (without making sure that they are guilty) to save money? this opinion is disturbing at best.

[JeffreyN]

Capital punishment should be abolished , here are some reasons why: 1) the system is administered by the state , the state is run by men , men make mistakes , the killing of just 1 innocent because of a mistake made by man is too much of a risk to justify its implementation.2) it is a fact innocent men have been have been wrongly found guilty and sentenced to die and later released.3)Crimes in one state that are not punishable by death are punisable by death in others 4) Minorities who commit capital crime against non minorities are put to death at a much higher percentage than non minorities committing the same crimes. 5) there is no statistical evidence that the death penal;ty serves as a detterent.6) Mandatory appeals make it no less expensive to put to death vs life imprisionment 7)the power to take a life should remain in God's hands not the same government that runs your local MVA.

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There is no such thing as "worth" in any universal sense - it is an entirely human concept, rooted in the human ego. As such, it is defined as a human may define it. Thus a human can simply define humankind as "more worthy" as it is a value based judgment that arises from human ego in the first place.

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That's not an argument. Emotional responses(ego is tied to emotion) are not valid arguments.

[blackize]

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we can't agree how much one life is worth. but a $ is a $. so we execute people at whim (without making sure that they are guilty) to save money? this opinion is disturbing at best.

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When did I say without making sure that they are guilty? The current system takes 20 years to carry itself out, entirely too long. There are also MANDATORY appeals. On top of that the system allows multiple appeals when barring new evidence, one should be enough.

Edit: And yes a dollar is a dollar. If we can be assured of a person's guilt and execution is cheaper than imprisonment, then that is the course we should take.

[jjacky]

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we can't agree how much one life is worth. but a $ is a $. so we execute people at whim (without making sure that they are guilty) to save money? this opinion is disturbing at best.

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When did I say without making sure that they are guilty? The current system takes 20 years to carry itself out, entirely too long. There are also MANDATORY appeals. On top of that the system allows multiple appeals when barring new evidence, one should be enough.

Edit: And yes a dollar is a dollar. If we can be assured of a person's guilt and execution is cheaper than imprisonment, then that is the course we should take.

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what do you think is the likelyhood that someone is innocent when being executed? somewhere in the thread was a discussion about it. estimates go from 0.0000001% to about 20%. i think the latter is more accurate (at least on a log scale there should be no doubt about it).
if you make it harder to get an appeal, this will likely get even worse.

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from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article....0of%20Innocence

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Since 1973, approximately 6,000 people have been sentenced to death. During this same period, 69 people have been released from death row with substantial evidence of their innocence. This translates to a rate of over 1 innocent death row inmate for every 100 death sentences.

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I'm fine with a 1% margin of error.

[jjacky]

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from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article....0of%20Innocence

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Since 1973, approximately 6,000 people have been sentenced to death. During this same period, 69 people have been released from death row with substantial evidence of their innocence. This translates to a rate of over 1 innocent death row inmate for every 100 death sentences.

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I'm fine with a 1% margin of error.

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this fact by no means prove that the margin of error is only 1%. on the cantrary, it indicates that the real number is much higher.