New Fight Question

[PairTheBoard]

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figured a pretty submission should be included in that list... watch the slowmo

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Could you please explain what's going on with that "submission" thing? Why is that position a death knell for the loser?

PairTheBoard

[Hume]

UFC > *. Anyone who says SEAL is delusional.

[Hume]

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The reason is that the military man should have in his repertoire a few extra skills for killing a person in the course of a fight. All these moves are forbiddden in every sport.

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Just like the secret, deadly, kung-fu moves? Say, hypothetically, that the seal knows some secret moves (that somehow no one outside the military has ever thought of), how does he train them? To perform a technique flawlessly you must train it over and over. How do you train ripping someones eyes out?

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
as for what the military guy may know that the ufc guy doesn't: no holds barred moves. I came across an old army hand-to-hand manual. it had long chapters on different ways to put your fingers into someone's face and rip it apart. would they ever get a chance to try that? I don't know. would the ufc guy think of trying the same thing himself? seems likely. so I have no idea if it would be a big factor. but it is a possible factor. and this is what "shoot" fighting is supposed to refer to traditionally I think (or catch-as-catch can). I didn't look at the link above, but my understanding is that the main part of shoot fighting was supposed to be small joint manipulation--fingers, knee caps etc--eye gouging, fish hooking, pressure points, etc. in a word, dirty fighting. but again, the ufc guy isn't going to refrain from trying the same himself. though he's less practiced in it.,

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Isn't that the main point? The boxer is less practiced in grappling so will lose to the Mixed fighter. But the Mixed Fighter is not fully trained in the full array of the Most Deadly Moves like the World Class Navy Seal is. In a fight to the Death isn't it the Most Deadly Techniques that dominate? Also, since none of these "Ultimate" fights are to the death and they rule out the Most Deadly Techniques, is the comparitive evidence they provide really conclusive? The Death Match rule set hasn't been tested.

PairTheBoard

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
Say, hypothetically, that the seal knows some secret moves (that somehow no one outside the military has ever thought of), how does he train them? To perform a technique flawlessly you must train it over and over. How do you train ripping someones eyes out?

[/ QUOTE ]Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? I honestly want to know.

[Sanchez1Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as for what the military guy may know that the ufc guy doesn't: no holds barred moves. I came across an old army hand-to-hand manual. it had long chapters on different ways to put your fingers into someone's face and rip it apart. would they ever get a chance to try that? I don't know. would the ufc guy think of trying the same thing himself? seems likely. so I have no idea if it would be a big factor. but it is a possible factor. and this is what "shoot" fighting is supposed to refer to traditionally I think (or catch-as-catch can). I didn't look at the link above, but my understanding is that the main part of shoot fighting was supposed to be small joint manipulation--fingers, knee caps etc--eye gouging, fish hooking, pressure points, etc. in a word, dirty fighting. but again, the ufc guy isn't going to refrain from trying the same himself. though he's less practiced in it.,

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the main point? The boxer is less practiced in grappling so will lose to the Mixed fighter. But the Mixed Fighter is not fully trained in the full array of the Most Deadly Moves like the World Class Navy Seal is. In a fight to the Death isn't it the Most Deadly Techniques that dominate? Also, since none of these "Ultimate" fights are to the death and they rule out the Most Deadly Techniques, is the comparitive evidence they provide really conclusive? The Death Match rule set hasn't been tested.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]do you also believe in santa clause? the death moves are just jiu jitsu moves.

[logie]

Whoever gets in first.

[Hume]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say, hypothetically, that the seal knows some secret moves (that somehow no one outside the military has ever thought of), how does he train them? To perform a technique flawlessly you must train it over and over. How do you train ripping someones eyes out?

[/ QUOTE ]Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? I honestly want to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was almost going to ask the same thing about your post. Let me rephrase, how do you train ripping someones eyes out, without actually ripping his eyes out. The same argument goes for any technique so deadly that it's banned in all sports.

<font color="white">I'm probably getting leveled ;(</font>

[Mickey Brausch]

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the death moves are just jiu jitsu moves.

[/ QUOTE ]This is supposed to be about sets and subsets of skills, really, and not a thread about Mike Zambidis.

It all comes down to
Boxer = (all the boxing skills)
Streefighter = (boxing skills plus more skills)
Martial artist = (Streefighter skills plus more skills)
UFC = (Martial arts skills plus more skills)
SEAL = (UFC skills plus more skills)

I find it funny that people are asking how does one train for a skill such as "gouging an eye out" without really gouging out an eye. Come on, folks! Someone who trains daily how to break a leg with a kick, even if he never breaks a leg with a kick during practice, is far better qualified to break a leg than someone who has never learned nor trained how to break a leg.

But, aside from the real-world situation for this, the problem in the OP assumes that if you have the skill, you are the master of it. I.e. if you're the world's greatest boxer, no one would defeat you at boxing. The person who is NOT the greatest boxer, is not as good in boxing as the World's greatest boxer but (that's why I graded them the way I did) I consider the possession of a skill in world class level, (e.g. a UFC guy who boxes well enough), even if not top-of-the-world, along with the possession of additional world class skills, to give you an edge over a single-skill mastery.

Mickey Brausch

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason is that the military man should have in his repertoire a few extra skills for killing a person in the course of a fight. All these moves are forbiddden in every sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just like the secret, deadly, kung-fu moves? Say, hypothetically, that the seal knows some secret moves (that somehow no one outside the military has ever thought of), how does he train them? To perform a technique flawlessly you must train it over and over. How do you train ripping someones eyes out?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about you do a number of real-life missions where you stealth in underwater to set some explosives but you have to silently take out the guards first. Silent knife might be preferred but sometimes you don't get the full element of surprise you were hoping for and it becomes a fast death match and maybe you can't use the knife. Maybe you have to fight two guards at once and you have to temporarily blind one then immediately destroy the larynx of the other (windpipe death blow somtimes done as a snappy torqued backhanded shuto which by the way also prevents him from calling out for help, he will die from suffocation as the larynx will swell very fast and large cutting off his air) then you get behind the guy you just temporarily blinded and with a quick grasp and sudden upwards sideways twist you snap his spinal column at its most vulnerable location in the neck. Do you not think such things can and have been done? That particular sequence could be executed in less than ten seconds under the right conditions.

Anyway, even if the world's best fighting SEAL hasn't done that exact sequence, he well might have hand-to-hand experience in life-or-death matches...and that's something even the top UFC guys *don't* have.