ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[rockbottom99]

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Anyone who own's Sklansky's Poker, Gaming, and Life should check out the "Crime and Punishment" essay on pgs. 192-4. Paragraphs 1-3 on pgs. 193-4 help delineate ZJ's thought process, and a reasonable course of punishment.

ZJ's obviously (in some ways) a very bright guy. He calculated the risk/reward of his actions, and decided the ev gain, whether measured in money, fame, or personal satisfaction, was worth it. He miscalculated it, especially given his big mouth on his blog, the recent JJProdigy situation, and other factors. He paid the price. Game over.

Dan

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Brilliantly put. Couldn't agree more.

[bugstud]

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I've known very few people who have a developed one, regardless. College makes it worse, often. Not better.

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Wrong.

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maybe I've been tainted by going to a large, big ten university. The ease, simplicity and relative anonymity there made many people bend/break ethical lines. I can imagine a smaller college might not present these chances.

I also think you people underestimate the pressures that most kids have in college to not [censored] up. They will do whatever it takes to not look like that.

[Shoe]

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However, what Party emailed me is wrong on several subjects.
First of all, the accounts were NOT created solely for MTT use. They were originally created for SNG play. It got to the point where everyone knew that ZeeJustin would steal the blinds often, and everyone called him liberally. I created these accounts to erase this loose image. Everyone would be readless against me, and it was a huge advantage. These accounts all did very well in the big SNGs on PartyPoker.


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This is blatant cheating. Any funds you won this way was not legitmate. It sounds like you had set up a perfect opportunity to start trapping your opponents.

The only way playing under a different name is ok, is if you officially request to change your screenname through party, and they change it.

[RJ!]

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Granny,
Are you going to write Stars and tell them that if you ever see ZJ at one of their tables again, it's grounds for them losing your business? I am.

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good, the reactionaries are here! im not really sure what you hope to accomplish with that demand. do you really think after zj just got cheating he will cheat again on his home site? or are you just really that bored and you thought that making a "kick someone while theyre down" kind of demand would be fitting for the situation. what a [censored] [censored], seriously. even more gutsy was the fact that you had to make sure someone else was gonna do it with you, you should have called grannie and asked him to hold your hand while you did it too! that would be cuter! [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

rj

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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If you think all that money doesn't attract crooks like flies to sh1t, especially at the bigger games, you are in for a surprise. I really wonder, but can imagine clearly what happens in those high limit short handed games, limit and no limit, where many players know each other, and many have admitted in public to having more than one active account per site. If you want to think naively, do so at your own risk, but all manners of cheating are possible and easy to hide playing online. ZJ got caught because he was careless and needed attention. Where the real money is wagered, you won't find that kind of mistake.


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I agree with you that high limit games attract that kind of people. But that, should only lead to tougher measures taken. Don't be so disillusioned that you think cheaters can't be stopped, it is only a matter of being one inch smarter and one inch tougher. Party now shows they strike hard, which is very reassuring to know. I hope they increase their efforts even more.

[Jbrochu]

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lol yeah who is this ackbleh guy anyway. Way to take one sentence out of his post and ignore all the rest. Most serious poker players know who ackbleh is.


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My point had nothing to do with how talented a poker player he might be.

My point was he has 9 posts and makes a blanket statement about the "hundreds" coming out of the woodwork due to jealousy.

I didn't realize only high stakes players had a voice that mattered here. I guess it's similar to the high stakes players being privy to who's cheating while us "less serious" players are left in the dark.


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Yea I actually have a list of cheaters, I'll sell it for $100.

Anyway people's post count isn't really relevant in this discussion. Ackbleh makes an attempt at a well thought out post looking at everything from an almost completely objective standpoint, I find it petty that you would pinpoint that one sentence.


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You're right, ack was trying to make a fair post and maybe he's upset because ZJ is a friend or acquaintance, but a successful player referring to a bunch of players he doesn't know as never-will-bes is being a bit of an ackhole

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I wish I had taken a little time to think before writing "I guess it's similar to the high stakes players being privy to who's cheating while us 'less serious' players are left in the dark."

I want to make it clear that I don't believe Curtains was involved with anything unethical, and I should have cooled off before making a stupid reply.

[Exitonly]

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I've known very few people who have a developed one, regardless. College makes it worse, often. Not better.

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Wrong.

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[Clarkmeister]

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Just to end all of the baseless curtains blaming:

On December 18, 2005 on a private forum curtains made the following post:
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There is a common trend among people to use multiple accounts when they play in a multitable tournament. There are many reasons why this is a disgusting and unethical practice but they often use excuses like "oh ill sit out if it happens to me" or "Oh Ill make sure it won't affect my play" or blah blah. But ok what do you do if you have something like Kxh and your "alter ego" has the ace of hearts...now you know you have the nut flush draw, you cannot unknow this knowledge and it can theoretically affect gameplay in your favor. In any case the advantages are relatively small, assuming you don't plan to abuse things if you find yourself at the same table as yourself, however there are still advantages nonetheless.

I just want to make a blanket statement that if I know of anyone who does this on a regular basis, I will lose all respect for you. You are stealing my money everytime I enter the same tournament as you, and I will have nothing to do with you in any way whatsoever should I find out that this is a common tactic you use in online play.



PS - This thread was brought about by a player who randomly decided to tell me that he planned to use 3 accounts to play a big tourney tomorrow. I know this player isn't the only one to do this, and I wish it was frowned upon a lot more than it is.

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FYI the PS was not referring to ZJ either.

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I have a hard time rectifying that post by curtains with this post by curtains:

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btw I personally would turn someone in if I knew they were still cheating.

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[Clarkmeister]

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We feel largely the same way about it. The difference is that I knew about it and you didn't. Other people seem to think my ethical issue is that I knew about it and didn't inform on people. Maybe they are right.

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If you were the sort of person who was going to inform on people, you wouldn't know about any cheating because nobody would tell you about it.

To expect you to suddenly change personality is unfair.

Lori

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You are probably right Lori. He is a coward and one WHO LOOKS THE OTHER WAY and DOESN'T RAT OUT A CROOK to help those being preyed on. Such a person probably doesn't have the backbone to change.

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He hasn't stumbled across these people cheating. They have told him in confidence. I hope they all get caught and have their money taken from them, but it's not shaniac's job to do it.
If he stumbled across random people cheating and didn't report it then that would be looking the other way.

Lori

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Lori,

This is an absurd response for a lot of reasons. So it's *not* ok for someone on the inside of Enron to blow the whistle, but it's *mandatory* for someone outside of Enron to blow the whistle??

[DanS]

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Anyone who own's Sklansky's Poker, Gaming, and Life should check out the "Crime and Punishment" essay on pgs. 192-4. Paragraphs 1-3 on pgs. 193-4 help delineate ZJ's thought process, and a reasonable course of punishment.

ZJ's obviously (in some ways) a very bright guy. He calculated the risk/reward of his actions, and decided the ev gain, whether measured in money, fame, or personal satisfaction, was worth it. He miscalculated it, especially given his big mouth on his blog, the recent JJProdigy situation, and other factors. He paid the price. Game over.

Dan

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Brilliantly put. Couldn't agree more.

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TY. I don't seeth with hatred for ZJ; I just wanted to find a way to articulate why what he did can be construed as such a malicious, calculated form of theft, and I remembered Sklansky's essay.

Dan