ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs - Page 142

TimWakefield · #**1411** 02-25-2006, 04:16 PM

I believe this is my first post here, usually I'm on the FCP forums. Perhaps somebody has said this before, but SINCE HE HAS BEEN CAUGHT CHEATING ALL OF HIS PROFITS SHOULD BE SUSPECT.

For some reason a lot of you guys seem to think this is like Men Nguyen getting caught snagging a few extra chips during break. It's not. ZJ was systematically cheating in as much as every single MTT he played in. Just because he has not yet been accused of cheating in SNGs does not mean he did not cheat in those as well.

To me, ZJ is an extremely successful cheater. Perhaps somebody has proof of big $$$ he won without cheating, but if nobody does then all of his winnings should be considered tainted. He is not accused of cheating once. He is accused, and addmitted to, cheating all the time.

And even if we believe his story that his 6 selves WEREN'T acting as a team (and you are an idiot if you believe that) it is still an enormous advantage. Do you think Phil Ivey would enter the WSOP if he was facing a field of say 2000 players, including 6 Dan Harringtons, even if all six PROMISED with all their heart not to collude (and that they would distract themselves with massages and sidebets if they were at the same table) hahahahahahahahahahahhaha.

NLSoldier · #**1412** 02-25-2006, 04:19 PM

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I don't think either of these things are true. I think ZJ played multiple accounts in one MTT because he wanted to be play more MTTs.

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Wow I totally disagree. I think he would have played 6 accounts in all 6 of them.

bocablkr · #**1413** 02-25-2006, 04:20 PM

Ackbleh,

Please tell us who you are? And do you disagree with my position that I have stated below.

I think most people are not aware of the main advantage of having multiple accounts besides the obvious ones of chip dumping and seeing more than one set of holes cards if you are at the same table.

It is called Kamikaze accounts. If you are one of the top pros in these events who do you fear the most - other pros. If you can eliminate them, then your EV goes way up. It would be easy for you to beat a tournament full of amateurs.

So what do you do - you wait until one of your kamikaze accounts is seated at a table with a known pro. Then, when the opportunity is there to bust them on a coin flip, you take it. You would normally never risk your only entry on a coin flip at this point but since you have kamikaze accounts, go for it. If it fails, you still have accounts left. But if it succeeds, you have doubled up as well as taking out a main competitor. Then you can use him to take out more pros until finally chip dumping to yourself at the end. Pretty slick and totally immoral in my book.

TimWakefield · #**1414** 02-25-2006, 04:21 PM

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I just gotta bump this again...

I just read through all 1100 or so posts... my eyes hurt... but this picture made me laugh until I cried.

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Can someone who knows how to use photoshop make a good version of this? I mean it's hilarious and all but wow is that a half-assed pic.

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Dude this pic is awesome. The best part is that it's limit hahahahaha. I only wish we could see you showing off the quad 8s.

Mempho · #**1415** 02-25-2006, 04:22 PM

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I don't think either of these things are true. I think ZJ played multiple accounts in one MTT because he wanted to be play more MTTs.

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Wow I totally disagree. I think he would have played 6 accounts in all 6 of them.

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NorthernGuy · #**1416** 02-25-2006, 04:22 PM

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ZJ,

You should hire a criminal defense lawyer, and stop making statements. Seriously.

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I agree that statement was terrible form ZJ's point of view. He shouldn't say anything without contacting a lawyer. If he was completely innocent he could make a statement without that.

First of all, he admits to the accusation. Then he makes the bizarre claim that he opened up a bunch of SNGs when he was at the same to table as himself and this somehow prevented him from colluding with himself. Then he says Party could sieze other people's accounts if they are using Rakeback.

What ZeeJustin and JJProdigy did were not the most serious forms of cheating. There are some questions about how Party handled this. First they had a bug in theor software that allowed the multiaccounting with one computer and IP address. Secondly, they did not catch people doing this until complaints were brought about tournament winners. Thirdly, they siezed all funds in the players' accounts. If I was ZJ's lawyer there is an argument I could make.

While I don't think he can make any sort of legal case or there is any civil or criminal case likely to be made against him, he still would be better off not making statements without consulting an attorney.

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Ah, so if my door was unlocked, then it's okay to come in a take my furniture? Great argument there betgo... we can now see the level of integrity you possess.

Baulucky · #**1417** 02-25-2006, 04:26 PM

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Yeah, I was naive in thinking that it was a doable idea, which it sort of turns out it isn't. On the other hand, I have some experience with dealing with scumbags, and I have learned from this that you have to put heavy pressure on them to avoid them from cheating you (if ZeeJustin had cheated me out of money, the treatment he received from Party would seem like kindergarten in comparison). That pressure is currently not in place, tougher methods are needed.

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If you think ZJ was a big scumbag, think again. He is a pristine baby in comparison with whatever organized crime, smart cheaters and hackers/programmers have been doing for a long time.

If you think all that money doesn't attract crooks like flies to sh1t, especially at the bigger games, you are in for a surprise. I really wonder, but can imagine clearly what happens in those high limit short handed games, limit and no limit, where many players know each other, and many have admitted in public to having more than one active account per site. If you want to think naively, do so at your own risk, but all manners of cheating are possible and easy to hide playing online. ZJ got caught because he was careless and needed attention. Where the real money is wagered, you won't find that kind of mistake.

I wouldn't rule out cheating by the sites themselves either. Look at what the owners have done in the past for a clue. Human greed is boundless.

billyjex · #**1418** 02-25-2006, 04:27 PM

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I've known very few people who have a developed one, regardless. College makes it worse, often. Not better.

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Wrong.

DanS · #**1419** 02-25-2006, 04:32 PM

Anyone who own's Sklansky's Poker, Gaming, and Life should check out the "Crime and Punishment" essay on pgs. 192-4. Paragraphs 1-3 on pgs. 193-4 help delineate ZJ's thought process, and a reasonable course of punishment.

ZJ's obviously (in some ways) a very bright guy. He calculated the risk/reward of his actions, and decided the ev gain, whether measured in money, fame, or personal satisfaction, was worth it. He miscalculated it, especially given his big mouth on his blog, the recent JJProdigy situation, and other factors. He paid the price. Game over.

Dan

gumpzilla · #**1420** 02-25-2006, 04:33 PM

I find all the people rejecting bugstud's assertion that college could make the problem worse interesting. Do you have a solid base of acquaintances who haven't gone to college to compare with those who have? Growing up in general frequently (but not always) does good things in this regard. I'm not sure if I agree with bugstud on this one, but it's not something that you can categorically deny, I don't think.