Fossilman's Account Hacked?

[True North]

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Could a company theoretically :

Say they want to sponsor Greg for a product. Greg says "Give me 100k or no deal. " Could this company just go to the WPT and offer them say 25k for Greg's images and other stuff?

If so, that's pretty wrong.

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If you have signed the release form put forth by the WPT, then this is exactly what could happen .

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The WPT has been around for a while. Has this happened ever? If not, then it seems a bit silly to be suing against a hypothetical.

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It only takes them changing their mind once. Plus, who's to say ownership's going to be the same down the road?

[ekdikeo]

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The WPT has been around for a while. Has this happened ever? If not, then it seems a bit silly to be suing against a hypothetical.

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Happened or not, it's something that SHOULDN'T be in their contracts, and from what I understand, if it were removed, then there wouldn't be any issues going on.

I've been involved in a few gargantuan lawsuits in my time, and have learned a few things, for sure. One of them is that if you want a sizeable business to pay attention to you, you have to do it through their legal department.

I'm not a gambling man (I often tell people the only people gambling when I'm playing poker are my opponents [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) but I'd put down 10:1 that Fossilman knows a lot more about lawyers, lawsuits, trademarks, and branding, than at least 95% of this group. Combined. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I also highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that this lawsuit would have any affect whatsoever on any lawmakers view of poker -- No lawmaker in the U.S. wants us to be able to use our money for this purpose. When money gets transferred around willy nilly without documentation, it makes it very difficult for them to keep track of what you owe them. Certainly with all the numbers of politicians demanding a ban on online play, and all the ones repeating the 'gambling is evil' mantra, or whatever the hell they are doing, they sure as heck aren't representing the interests of their constituents.

I haven't seen any of the documentation on the lawsuit (anyone have links to it?) but I'd guess that this is a civil suit, and not a criminal suit, so really it's under most lawmakers radars. And there's the "7 people vs. a company that made $185,000 last year" angle, too.

Wow, I wish the TEXTAREA on this forum was a lot larger, so I could more easily review what the hell i'd written.

The BEST thing for poker, I think, would be to have as many pros as possible take a visible stance against the attempts at legislating online play out of existence, and non-online play to only casinos. I'd hate to have to go to Vegas or Atlantic City just to drink beer with my buds and play cards, but some places, that's the only thing that's legal.

I wonder what business has the politicians paid for and under their thumb? The big casinos shouldn't, they could leverage their big Vegas names, and turn billions of $ through. Only reason I can think of that politicians would be trying to get against it is either (a) the whacko branch of the religious side [differentiating that from the sane people that are religious] (b) taxes.

[greatwhite]

Post deleted by Dids

[NapHead]

Odd that in his latest videoblog rant about Raymer et al, he neglected to mention this snippet he posted yesterday:

QUOTE(DanielNegreanu @ Saturday, August 5th, 2006, 11:13 PM)

Tell Raymer to go breast feed some hungry children in Africa. Goof ball calling me out, who does he think he is, for real.


Yeah DN is a classy guy.

[okterrific]

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Don't let the TV cameras fool you. Raymer writes some of the most classless things from anybody in poker. [ QUOTE ]


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Does he?



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[/ QUOTE ] In fact Stars should fire his ass for what he types.
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Should they?



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[/ QUOTE ] "You're a tool and I'm a loser who has no friends. Hahaha!"

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Are ya?

[PairTheBoard]

I think Greg should apologize to Daniel for this line,

FossilMan said, "Daniel is out, glad to say"

I think that's what really hurt Daniel's feelings. Friends can disagree about the lawsuit but they don't root for each other to fail in the tournament. It probably stung especially bad considering how how Daniel must have felt right after being knocked out of the big one.

Daniel's hurt feelings were evident in his immediate response when he lashed out in a post he quickly deleted. Daniel should apologize to Greg for that post - which I find so disrepectful to Raymer I don't care to repeat it here.

Daniel had said that if there is any evidence of the WPT abusing their Rights he will reconsider his opinion on the lawsuit. It looks to me like such evidence is being presented in sections 57 and 58 of the Complaint.

From the Complaint:
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57. For example, WPTE markets the "World Poker Tour" video game which competes with, among other things, the "World Championship Poker" line of video games co-Plaintiffs Howard Lederer, Annie Duke and Greg Raymer each have licensed to Crave Entertainment, Inc - which manufactures and sells the "World Championship Poker" video games - the exclusive right to use their names, likenesses, images in conjunction with Crave video games. WPTE, however, upon information and belief, has used video footage of Messrs. Lederer and Raymer and Ms Duke playing in the WPT tournament as part of its "World Poker Tour" video game. The co-Plaintiffs were never notified by WPTE of this fact, nor did they receive any compensation for WPTE's coercive use of their intellectual property rights.

58. Another example is provided by WPTE's exploitation of the intellectual property rights of co-Plaintiff Phil Gordon, who is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of Expert Insight, a company which markets instructional poker DVD's and books among other things. In connection with Expert Insight, Mr. Gordon and co-Plaintiff Andrew Bloch run the "Las Vegas Academy" poker fantasy camp, where interested poker and blackjack players can pay for instruction from Messrs. Gordon and Bloch. WPTE runs its own poker fantasy camp - "World Poker Tour Boot Camp" - which is a head-to-head competitor with the Las Vegas Academy. Upon information and belief, WPTE has used video footage of Mr. Gordon playing in WPT tournaments - without his prior knowledge or any compensation - to promote its World Poker Tour Boot Camp.

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I really can't see why WPTE should be granted such Broad Rights to Player names and Images that go beyond promotion of the actual Tournament Production. Technically, I don't think they should even have the right to a player's name and image to promote a show unless he is actually in that particular Tournament. I hope the Court agrees and limits them to that venue. If they want a player to help them promote one of their other products then they should have to negotiate with that player just like everybody else. Can you imagine the NBA selling basketballs signed by Michael Jordon and not having to pay him?

btw, The WPT is doing better financially than has been reported on this thread. From the News Archives at Card Player:

"World Poker Tour Enterprises (WPTE) has turned a profit of $2.6 million in this year’s second financial quarter. In the same quarter last year, the company lost $0.4 million.

Revenues increased because WPTE delivered 10 episodes of the WPT and nine episodes of its new show, the Professional Poker Tour, this quarter. WPTE delivered eight episodes of the WPT the same quarter last year and no episodes of PPT last year. The PPT began airing on the Travel Channel in July.

WPTE lost $1.4 million in Q4 of last year and $5 million for all of 2005. In the first quarter of this year, the company made $3.6 million"

Looks like the WPT is up $6.2 million so far this year.



I really don't see the Downside that Daniel is worried about. He says that the issue of the Online Sites will get dragged into the case. I think Raymer claimed it won't. I don't see why it shouldn't. WPT wants to promote its own site and the players certainly can't afford to let go of their intellectual property rights in that area. That's really the big enchillada. So bring it. This is a Civil Case. It's not up to a Civil Court to get involved with whatever the Senate might be up to in their deliberations over the online gambling bill. As far as exposure goes, I think everybody knows about the online sites already.


I will copy this post at Daniel's FCP site.


PairTheBoard

[Phntm]

Get ready for all hell to break loose over there, they do not take it well when someone questions DN. He is like an infalliable god to those people..
Good Luck, btw I agree with your stance completely

[PairTheBoard]

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Get ready for all hell to break loose over there, they do not take it well when someone questions DN. He is like an infalliable god to those people..
Good Luck, btw I agree with your stance completely

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Actually the real god at FCP is Tomfoolery. My post was buried amidst so much inane hijinks I doubt many even saw it. Fun Fun Fun is the order of the day over there. If you want serious discussion come to 2+2. If you feel like getting wild and crazy FCP is the place to go. I like it as a nice change of pace. I'm really a fan of most all the big name players but I find it especially fun rooting for Daniel.

PairTheBoard

[LuckyStrike]

Daniel's "WPT created the poker boom so they should be absolved of all wrongdoing" stance really is stupid. I'm not a lawyer and I haven't read too much into the lawsuit so I don't have much of an opinion either way, but to say that the WPT shouldn't be attacked for allegedly exploiting players just because they helped poker explode (which may be debatable) is absurd.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I'd like to mention two things. This is in reply to several different posts throughout the thread.

First, I was wrong to insult Daniel. Whatever my feelings, I should have kept the negative comments to myself. They don't help me or the cause we are fighting in this lawsuit, and they might have been hurtful to Daniel. For that I am sorry, and I do apologize.

Second, many people make the comment that if players don't like the WPT release, they can simply choose not to play. That is true. However, what if you wish to play in an open-to-the-public big-buyin televised tournament? Other than the WPT, where can you do this? The WSOP, of course; as well as the U.S. Poker Championships at the Taj. So, for a month and a half in Vegas you can play the WSOP, and then with the Circuit events and the Taj that's another half dozen events per year. What else?

I know of no other options within the U.S. Events like the NBC Heads-up Championship and Poker SuperStars Invitational don't count, because they are not open to the public.

So, if you have other events you think meet the above definition, let us know. I'm pretty sure there are none at the present.

Thanks, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)