When you have a daughter....

[Blarg]

I don't think he was making his decision purely arbitrarily, but because he had a somewhat exaggerated idea of the negatives involved in having his kid poke around with her phone all day. Not agreeing with his reasoning is entirely different than saying he has none.

I also don't think some simple, exceedingly minor restriction on a kid is something to think will define a relationship or even impact it much. I certainly don't think it is the key that unlocks the door of how a relationship really works and is all about. It's friggin' text messaging fer cryin' out loud.

Some things about this whole line of argument are simply based on falsehood: that the dad is just trying to arbitrarily, to the profit of no one, exerting his authority. How that ever even became a line of argument, I don't know, but think it was a mistake.

Some are outright silly, and seem to smack of a fear of genuinely interacting with one's own kid. Do you have to avoid all conflict with your kids, over anything, at all cost? Is any single little thing really a portentous stand-in for the entirety of your relationship? If it is, god forbid you should ever tell your kid she can't have some ice cream today, or the family is doomed. DOOOOOMED!

Seriously, you will have conflicts with your kids no matter how scared of them you are and how much you try to grant their every wish and morbidly obsess over whether you have still not done enough for your little angels.

Turning such simple situations into elaborate metaphors, and allowing that kind of thinking to get other than a laugh between family members, is the definition of spineless, muddle-headed parenting. Sometimes your kid is going to have to clean up their room. Sometimes they're gonna get mad. Too bad.

The way you show love for your kid is not obsessing over what you buy them and how much, and whether you give them every little privilege or toy, but how much time you spend with them, and maybe how much time you even WANT to spend with them, and how much love you show when you do. Frankly, I'd have traded every christmas present I ever got to have been able to believe my stepfather loved me, and as ridiculously authoritarian as he was, wouldn't have minded if he were even more so, if at the same time I felt he gave a damn about me. It's not the things that count, nor the rule set, but the love behind it all, or the lack thereof. I don't think a kid getting whatever they ask for (or even all that much in the way of material goods) is a particularly big deal at all, and is often very harmful to them.

If you love them, let them know it, spend time with them, and treat them as people rather than lifestyle accessories, then the rest of it doesn't really even matter. And if you don't do those things, no amount of obsessing over whether they have this or that minor convenience, privilege, or luxury is going to do a thing to fix your relationship.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
it's not the thing, it's the reasoning behind the thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Making a mountain out of a molehill is the wrong reasoning no matter what you choose to do, and is pointing your efforts entirely in the wrong direction.

And, you can't speak of the reasoning fairly while changing the OP's reasoning to something it wasn't.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
This comes from the perspective of a recent high school/college student.

First, I think it is important to instill a sense of parental expectation for the child to earn good grades. Most children do not like dissapointing their parents. If children know you will be dissapointed by them earning bad grades they will be more likley to work hard in school.

Expensive rewards are unneccisary. Recognition of hard work is important though. Even though my father had a very lucrative job, I was expected to get good grades and I did. After my good report card my Parents would buy me pizza or take me out to dinner. Although this was not a large gift, the recognition was benificial.

About the text messaging. I think it is important for parents consumption and purchasing of items to be reflective of what they think their children should purchase. If parents buy expensive clothing, drive expensive cars, or have expensive gadgets, I think this value of material wealth is reflected onto children.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. One of the hardest parts of parenting for a great many people is that they simply are nowhere up to the standards they set for their kids. So their parenting becomes, "Do as I say, not as I do."

And, kids not being stupid, lose enormous respect for their parents when they see that they can't even uphold the standards they profess to believe in, and often don't even try.

Kids will learn from role models, good or bad. If you want your kids to be shallow, be shallow yourself. If you want them to be insufferable snobs, be sure to be one. If you want them to unappreciative of anything less than designer goods, be sure to sneer at same yourself. But if you want them to listen to you, listen to them. If you want them to behave well, behave well yourself. If you want them to understand the value of improving your mind, don't sit in front of the t.v. all day. If you want them to learn the value of self control, show a little discipline yourself.

Parents often talk the talk and don't walk the walk. But one of the hardest things about having kids is doubtless that you really need to grow up yourself. Kids will always come up with their own flaws, but they'll inherit almost every one of yours if you don't clean up your own act.

[Jdanz]

none of us are talking about the OP,

anyway we agree, this is semantics. Neither of us think the cell phone thing is a big deal, it's the thought/love/reasoning behind it.

If this were the only incident it would be laughably unimportant, but i believe that the reasons why or why not to grant the kid texting is likely the same reasoning they use in granting their kids all sorts of items/responsibilities.

My parents were generally permissive, but they drew lines for a reason, and the lines they drew were quite firm. These lines would not often just be a line in the sand, and if i was reasonable i could convince them to move it, if i messed up the line got moved in the other direction. Firm, but reasonable and logical.

It pissed me off sometimes, but i definetely always had a great deal of respect for my parents, and they eventually didn't have to make rules, because they would make their opinion known and i'd respect it.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
none of us are talking about the OP


[/ QUOTE ]

I meant the guy hopey was responding to -- 4 2 it, wasn't it? Anyway, you know what I mean, and that's what we were all talking about. He came up with a reason, and we can say it was more or less good or bad, but that's much different than it being arbitrary.

[ QUOTE ]
If this were the only incident it would be laughably unimportant, but i believe that the reasons why or why not to grant the kid texting is likely the same reasoning they use in granting their kids all sorts of items/responsibilities.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is unfair and unkind, and taking a speculation too far.

[ QUOTE ]
My parents were generally permissive, but they drew lines for a reason, and the lines they drew were quite firm. These lines would not often just be a line in the sand, and if i was reasonable i could convince them to move it, if i messed up the line got moved in the other direction. Firm, but reasonable and logical.

It pissed me off sometimes, but i definetely always had a great deal of respect for my parents, and they eventually didn't have to make rules, because they would make their opinion known and i'd respect it.


[/ QUOTE ]

My parents were not particularly loving, but were very restrictive in some ways and not all that restrictive in others. It was the lack of love that stuck with me and informed my days under their roof; in comparison, their restrictions were a fairly minor matter. I'd have been thrilled to live in a boot camp with white glove inspections every week if I'd felt there was real love behind it. Restrictions, and material things, strike me as things of minor consequence if a kid is basically raised right. That's how they strike me, anyway. The important things lie somewhere else entirely.

[Jdanz]

i was gonna say something similar in my post, but i know some parents that really love their kids, but do a [censored] job raising them.

I agree it's the most important thing, but it's not enough.

[Blarg]

No, of course not. But hopefully love isn't called into question over highly trivial matters.

I have seen kids try to manipulate their parents in a way that suggest it is, though.

[Jusbe]

I'm too tired to read all the posts, but if you've watched Bad Boys (2?), you know how to handle this.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's not the thing, it's the reasoning behind the thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Making a mountain out of a molehill is the wrong reasoning no matter what you choose to do, and is pointing your efforts entirely in the wrong direction.

And, you can't speak of the reasoning fairly while changing the OP's reasoning to something it wasn't.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, what happened is that the thread spiralled out of control, and I was relating what one of the other posters said (about text messaging) to how my father raised his children. I was discussing more the perils of being an authoritarian parent, as opposed to trying to disect the OP's statement about not allowing text messaging.

I went off on a tangent, and I didn't mean to call into question the OP's parenting, as I obviously don't have enough information to form an opinion.