|
|
#121
10-31-2007, 02:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] However you can look at non-US play for parallels to AC, which avoids the complexity of those barriers...ie wrt to non-US play online gambling is largely unregulated [/ QUOTE ] That's very myopic. When certain people are arbitrarily excluded from the market, it affects everyone. Let's say I run a porn site for 100 people in an office building. I get paid per time spent on my site. Things are going great, and as the revenue comes in I'm able to hire better and better models, and my site is improving rapidly. One wing of the office building is no longer allowed to view pornography. Now only 50 people have the option to view my site. Do you think this will have no effect on the quality of service I am able to offer (and thus the quality of service the "unregulated" half is able to receive)? Countries are imaginary lines. But human coexistence has tangible consequence, and we do coexist with people who live outside of our imaginary lines. So when you harm one you are harming others too (even if maybe to a smaller degree). And reciprocally, when one prospers, it helps the rest of us too. The European market IS effectively regulated, because they are not allowed to reap the benefits that would come if the sites they use were able to do business with people in the US. [/ QUOTE ] If this were true then you are tacitly admitting that the entire world would have to be AC for any given society to be truly AC. [/ QUOTE ] lol. Why don't you start by explaining to me why what I said might possibly not be true. [/ QUOTE ] Its irrelevant whether its true or not. If its true, AC can only exist if the entire world is AC (which is an admission that AC is impossible). If its false then its a demonstration of the failure of a "near AC" market. 
|
|
#122
10-31-2007, 02:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
Its irrelevant whether its true or not. [/ QUOTE ] It's entirely relevant to your "argument" that the European market is not affected by US regulation. If you're willing to admit that this is utterly false, then yes, the simple observation can go back to being irrelevant. [ QUOTE ] If its true, AC can only exist if the entire world is AC [/ QUOTE ] First of all, of course it's true. It's blatantly true. Even most any anti-ACer would probably agree with me because the point is so obvious. All this implies is that an AC society in the context of a statist world will not be as prosperous as the same society in the context of an AC world. Since our position is that states create a bad result, and that bad results for one is bad for all, I'm not sure what exactly you think you're proving since this is actually fodder for the AC position.
|
|
#123
10-31-2007, 02:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Its irrelevant whether its true or not. [/ QUOTE ] It's entirely relevant to your "argument" that the European market is not affected by US regulation. If you're willing to admit that this is utterly false, then yes, the simple observation can go back to being irrelevant. [ QUOTE ] I've never argued that. It doesnt matter. If the only two forks in the road lead you off the end of the cliff, put on the brakes. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If its true, AC can only exist if the entire world is AC [/ QUOTE ] First of all, of course it's true. It's blatantly true. Even most any anti-ACer would probably agree with me because the point is so obvious. All this implies is that an AC society in the context of a statist world will not be as prosperous as the same society in the context of an AC world. Since our position is that states create a bad result, and that bad results for one is bad for all, I'm not sure what exactly you think you're proving since this is actually fodder for the AC position. [/ QUOTE ] You are (apparently intentionally) missing the point. Even in your proposition that an AC world within a statist world would be more prosperous than the alternative, the European market has failed to provide essential information. Avoid the issue as much as you want, but if you can't even attempt to explain why this isn't a failure even in its limited scope without a claim that this particular market is more irrational than any other market, this thread is over for me, and you're relegated to the Borodog world of intellecutal dishonesty.
|
|
#124
10-31-2007, 02:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
I also think trust is essential for both the economy and the fabric of society (and is a huge part of what governments help create), and that lack of that trust is very harmful in the long run. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? Governments constantly break the trust of the people.
|
|
#125
10-31-2007, 02:37 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] - The current situation doesn't represent a free market A: Why not? [/ QUOTE ] Artificial barriers to entry placed by the government. The current situation is more representative of a black market than a free market. [/ QUOTE ] This is such an exaggeration its not even funny. I am tired of reading this crap from A/C'ists. Its like reading elaines blog where she talks about how great the world would be if we all threw away our tvs, stopped driving cars, etc. Why is everyone so hung up on wasting a ton of time to try to make a completely implausible idea a reality? Its especially funny when A/Cists tell us that our current system was "forced on them". Oh cool, now force your new crappy system on everyone else to balance things out! [/ QUOTE ] Please explain how you getting to pick a system is having a system forced upon you.
|
|
#126
10-31-2007, 02:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Statism always gets a free pass. Don't you know the rules? We have to thoroughly prove everything before we begin to have a semblance of a point. But they throw darts and then they're on to something. [/ QUOTE ] Do you really not understand why this would be the case? [/ QUOTE ] I understand why it IS the case: because people are lazy, overcome with intellectual inertia - they just take the status quo as being assumed to be justified and go from there. Changes to the status quo must be justified, don't worry about the fact that how we got here has no moral justification, it IS the status quo so don't bother questioning it. It's a reduction of might makes right. Now, why SHOULD this be the case?
|
|
#127
10-31-2007, 02:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
Governments create trust in a stable society, in the universal application of justice, and in continuity of various things regardless of what happens.
They're not perfect but I'd be interested to hear why you disgree with the above statement.
|
|
#128
10-31-2007, 02:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] APs actions and the aftermath are clear indications to me that trusting the "market" to provide critical information to consumers and to lead to Darwinian evolution of that particular business is a dismal failure so far. It is equivalent to the failures in the holistic/herbal supplements...a snake oil business that rips off its consumers for $ billions. [/ QUOTE ] Or trashy newspapers, or credit cards, or religions. Just because people have a consumer preference that you understand to be objectively false doesnt mean that it doesnt produce value for that consumer. [/ QUOTE ] The claim of ACists is that the market maximizes value, not just provides some value. [/ QUOTE ] Not of THIS ACist. Value is subjective.
|
|
#129
10-31-2007, 02:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] APs actions and the aftermath are clear indications to me that trusting the "market" to provide critical information to consumers and to lead to Darwinian evolution of that particular business is a dismal failure so far. It is equivalent to the failures in the holistic/herbal supplements...a snake oil business that rips off its consumers for $ billions. [/ QUOTE ] Or trashy newspapers, or credit cards, or religions. Just because people have a consumer preference that you understand to be objectively false doesnt mean that it doesnt produce value for that consumer. [/ QUOTE ] The claim of ACists is that the market maximizes value, not just provides some value. [/ QUOTE ] Not of THIS ACist. Value is subjective. [/ QUOTE ] Nor this one.
|
|
#130
10-31-2007, 02:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: A/C in Action: The AP Case
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know that it really matters for this thread but why are responses here couched in terms of playing online poker being illegal in the US? It isn't, at least at the Federal level. The barriers to entry into the US market are finding a funding intermediary willing to handle US players and stock exchange regulations/risks for the publicly traded companies. However you can look at non-US play for parallels to AC, which avoids the complexity of those barriers...ie wrt to non-US play online gambling is largely unregulated. APs actions and the aftermath are clear indications to me that trusting the "market" to provide critical information to consumers and to lead to Darwinian evolution of that particular business is a dismal failure so far. It is equivalent to the failures in the holistic/herbal supplements...a snake oil business that rips off its consumers for $ billions. [/ QUOTE ] The market has provided that information to consumers they just aren't interested in finding it or acting on it when they do! They may say that their interested but this little situation proves conclusivly that they're not. If I'm about to put my money into a poker site 'll do a google search to see if that site is legit or not. The first hit on online poker cheating absolute is a NEW YORK TIMES (for christs sake) article on this very situation! If people can't be bothered to take 5 seconds to find this stuff out then they don't care that they're getting cheated so tough titties.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
