Small stakes, live tipping advice?

[jjshabado]

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Hmmmmmm...where have I heard this before.....oh ya, my own post earlier in this thread. I know that it takes alot of effort to read the thread before you post so I will quote myself below:


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Speaking of reading, how about actually reading my original post. The point was that you believe everybody should have to earn their keep. You seem to base that purely on education and training (ie. Because it doesn't take much education or training to be a dealer they shouldn't make much money). You say that you believe thats a moral issue.

My response is that dealers do earn their pay, based on the fundamental principle of capitalism. My 'suggestions' weren't about what I think casinos SHOULD do, they were options that casinos have to get their grubby little hands on the tips dealers collect. There's TONS of ways for them to get a portion of this money (as you've nicely admitted). The fact that they DON'T means that they also feel dealers aren't overpaid.

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So I guess you have come full circle and now agree with me.

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You would believe that, because you have poor reading comprehension skills.

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The casino's are not the ones paying the dealers. The players are. If the casinos started to rake the same amount of money as the dealers currently are being voluntarily tipped, ironically the players would scream bloody murder.

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Exactly! Thus society feels dealers earn their pay, and if they didn't nobody would care if the casinos implemented measures to get the tips.

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The casino's have no motivation to change the situation beacuse they know they cannot ask the players to give up the same amount of money up front, (nor should they), and of course they are not the ones paying the dealers this money anyway.

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The issue isn't who's paying the money, if the casino felt it could get away with getting some of that money, it would do it in a second.

[AngusThermopyle]

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TIPS - To Insure Prompt Service



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Not where the word comes from.

[bav]

And they're "tokes" in the gambling world. Tokens of appreciation.

[the_casino_kid]

do they tip you when you lose??

[Photoc]

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do they tip you when you lose??

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7 pages of replies and this is what you come up with? Try harder please, or better yet, don't waste your time typing this drabble.

[leykis]

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The fact that they DON'T means that they also feel dealers aren't overpaid.


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Restated as a logical syllogism your argument is this:

If the casinos felt that the dealers were overpaid, the casinos would take the extra money. (premise 1)
The casinos do not take the extra money. (premise 2)
Therfore, the casinos do not feel that the dealers are over paid. (conclusion)

This argument is invalid because premise 1 is false.

The premise assumes that the casinos have no other motivation to keep their hands off of the tip money other than their "feeling" that dealers are overpaid. An additional motivation for not doing this is that they would be breaking the law as I already stated.

There are several other reasons the casinos would not take the dealers tip money but I only need one to prove your premise false and your argument invalid so I will stop here.

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Quote:
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The casino's are not the ones paying the dealers. The players are. If the casinos started to rake the same amount of money as the dealers currently are being voluntarily tipped, ironically the players would scream bloody murder.


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Exactly! Thus society feels dealers earn their pay, and if they didn't nobody would care if the casinos implemented measures to get the tips.


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Restated as a logical syllogism in modus tollens your 2nd argument is this:

If society felt that the dealers were overpaid, then society would not care if the casinos took some of the dealers tips. (Premise 1)
Society would care if the casinos took some of the dealers tips. (Premise 2)
Therfore society feels that the dealers are not overpaid. (Conclusion)

Once again premise 1 is false. "Society" would (and should) care if the casino took some of the tip money even if "society" thought the dealers were overpaid. For instance, if society thought that the dealers were overpaid they may want the money returned to the players and therefore would still be upset if the casino were to take it. (this BTW would be my position)

Your conclusions are drawn from false premises in both cases and are therfore not valid.

[steelshooter]

Only a booger picker with an affinity for drinking vodka and smoking,could have ever started some garbage like this.Reminds me of why I had to cut my chat off when playing online with a slush headed,TWeeny bopper.They were always eager to to spread the gospel.....Its only a dollar!,It's only 5 bucks!,It's only Ten bucks!
Easy to say when you aren't workin for it!
Also you seem to insinuate that you never have a losing night.I hope you are taking Accounting at that junior college.May want to add a course of small business management in there somewhere too.

[jjshabado]

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The fact that they DON'T means that they also feel dealers aren't overpaid.


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Restated as a logical syllogism your argument is this:

The premise assumes that the casinos have no other motivation to keep their hands off of the tip money other than their "feeling" that dealers are overpaid. An additional motivation for not doing this is that they would be breaking the law as I already stated.

There are several other reasons the casinos would not take the dealers tip money but I only need one to prove your premise false and your argument invalid so I will stop here.


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Nice try, but you already conceded that there were legal methods the casino could take to get a portion of the money that is currently going to dealers. So there are legal options that the casino could take to increase their revenue at the expense of dealers. Please try again.

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Restated as a logical syllogism in modus tollens your 2nd argument is this:

If society felt that the dealers were overpaid, then society would not care if the casinos took some of the dealers tips. (Premise 1)
Society would care if the casinos took some of the dealers tips. (Premise 2)
Therfore society feels that the dealers are not overpaid. (Conclusion)

Once again premise 1 is false. "Society" would (and should) care if the casino took some of the tip money even if "society" thought the dealers were overpaid. For instance, if society thought that the dealers were overpaid they may want the money returned to the players and therefore would still be upset if the casino were to take it. (this BTW would be my position)

Your conclusions are drawn from false premises in both cases and are therfore not valid.

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Nice try again, but you haven't proven premise 1 false. If society felt that dealers were overpaid they would tolerate casinos getting some of that money, if they got SOME of that money back themselves. There are many options where players and casinos win, and dealers lose. Your idea of stopping tips and increasing rake is one of those options. It would easily be possible for rake to be increased in a way that leaves more money in players pockets, increases casino revenue, and leaves the dealers making less money.

Edit: Not to mention that if casinos thought people were overpaid the LEAST they would do is take options to shift that money to players. If casinos have a choice between their employees or their players keeping money who do you think they would choose? Here's a hint, its the people most likely to give it back to the casino.

Finally, you leave out another component of society's view on dealers being overpaid. The willingness of others to do the job for less. If dealers were overpaid there would be a large supply of potential dealers willing to take dealing jobs where they didn't make nearly as much. So in fact even if premise 1 was false, you're leaving out a very important component.


I'm going to assume you're just finishing your first year at College/University and you took a first year philosophy course. Unfortunately you need to think a little bit more about how to apply those arguments. ( You, of course are going to reply that you're like a 40 year old philosophy doctor I'm sure. Maybe you even are... but I doubt it).

[*TT*]

This thread has become an e-peen swinging contest, and really has nothing to do with tipping in casinos anymore. Therefore it's now locked. Learn from this lesson kiddies, know when to stop.