Grammar vs. Grammer

[Eurotrash]

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This is a superb rationalization for the same kind of laziness that causes people to use incorrect spelling and grammar.

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that's complete and utter BS. using incorrect grammar makes you look like an uneducated moron and most people do it because they don't know any better. do you think i don't know that i'm supposed to capitalize the first letter of my sentences? you're absolutely wrong on this one drew.

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Mmm... not really my point. Would you write a business letter and mail it off with no capitalization? Of course not; you do it here because 'it's the internets and it doesn't really matter.'

This is the same excuse offered by people who can't be bother to spell or use correct grammar. Hey, it's the interweb, who cares?

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wtf, these are two different animals altogether. the people that use poor spelling/grammar and say "it's just the intraweb" don't actually know any better. for example, if they were writing the most important lol document of their life, and they didn't have the aid of a dictionary and/or thesaurus, these people would still make the same errors.

Duck doesn't capitalize stuff because she is legitimately too lazy, and also because of those other reasons she outlined in her post (which i agree quite a bit with.)

[DrewDevil]

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- I could care less: The proper phrase is "I could not care less". To say "I could care less" means that you actually do care to some degree. Whenever somebody tells me, "I could care less" I always respond by asking, "How much less could you care?" Of course, they never get it.

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Thank you Captain Obvious. Usage has sanctified this phrase. You've already lost this one.

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Not by a long shot. "I could care less" means the exact opposite of what is intended, so unless the speaker is being intentionally ironic, this expression is 100% wrong, no matter how often it is misused.


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- Fewer/Less: Fewer refers to a smaller amount which can be physically counted. "I have two fewer dollars than Chris." Less refers to a smaller amount which cannot be physically counted. "I have less money than Chris."

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Perhaps you can come up with a situation in which for either of these using the 'correct' word has any value other than making the user feel superior. The fact is there is generally no additional (useful) information conveyed by farther rather than further, so why shouldn't the distinction die?

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Okay:

"Doctor Smith has less patience than Doctor Jones."

"Doctor Smith has fewer patients than Doctor Jones."

[maryfield48]

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- Fewer/Less: Fewer refers to a smaller amount which can be physically counted. "I have two fewer dollars than Chris." Less refers to a smaller amount which cannot be be physically counted. "I have less money than Chris."


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just to be a nit, for nittiness's sake (for nittiness sakes?) the actually quantity has no relevance to the fewer/less distinction.

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He didn't say it did. He distinguished between countable quantities and uncountable quantities. Read it again.

[fslexcduck]

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- Fewer/Less: Fewer refers to a smaller amount which can be physically counted. "I have two fewer dollars than Chris." Less refers to a smaller amount which cannot be be physically counted. "I have less money than Chris."


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just to be a nit, for nittiness's sake (for nittiness sakes?) the actually quantity has no relevance to the fewer/less distinction.

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He didn't say it did. He distinguished between countable quantities and uncountable quantities. Read it again.

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ya i'm an idiot

[DrewDevil]

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This is a superb rationalization for the same kind of laziness that causes people to use incorrect spelling and grammar.

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that's complete and utter BS. using incorrect grammar makes you look like an uneducated moron and most people do it because they don't know any better. do you think i don't know that i'm supposed to capitalize the first letter of my sentences? you're absolutely wrong on this one drew.

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Mmm... not really my point. Would you write a business letter and mail it off with no capitalization? Of course not; you do it here because 'it's the internets and it doesn't really matter.'

This is the same excuse offered by people who can't be bother to spell or use correct grammar. Hey, it's the interweb, who cares?

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wtf, these are two different animals altogether. the people that use poor spelling/grammar and say "it's just the intraweb" don't actually know any better. for example, if they were writing the most important lol document of their life, and they didn't have the aid of a dictionary and/or thesaurus, these people would still make the same errors.

Duck doesn't capitalize stuff because she is legitimately too lazy, and also because of those other reasons she outlined in her post (which i agree quite a bit with.)

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I said duck was lazy, not stupid. I suspect that some of the grammatical errors on the web are out of ignorance or stupidity, but I believe most of them are made from laziness.

[fslexcduck]

i don't want to beat a dead horse here but this is the thing - while my failure to capitalize may have originated from laziness, it is a conscious stylistic decision at this point. i like it, and a lot really does have to do with the reasons i said.

furthermore, i just think you're wrong that most people make mistakes out of laziness - i think they truly don't know. but since there is no way of knowing for sure, unless other people weigh in with opinions, this truly is a dead horse.

[maryfield48]

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- I could care less: The proper phrase is "I could not care less". To say "I could care less" means that you actually do care to some degree. Whenever somebody tells me, "I could care less" I always respond by asking, "How much less could you care?" Of course, they never get it.

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Thank you Captain Obvious. Usage has sanctified this phrase. You've already lost this one.

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Not by a long shot. "I could care less" means the exact opposite of what is intended, so unless the speaker is being intentionally ironic, this expression is 100% wrong, no matter how often it is misused.

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How can you know what is intended unless the phrase has conveyed that meaning to you? And if it has, it's done it's job irregardless of literal parsing.

Also, usage is the authority that determines rightness & wrongness in language. So to say that something is "wrong no matter how often it is misused" is oxymoronic.


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- Fewer/Less: Fewer refers to a smaller amount which can be physically counted. "I have two fewer dollars than Chris." Less refers to a smaller amount which cannot be physically counted. "I have less money than Chris."

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Perhaps you can come up with a situation in which for either of these using the 'correct' word has any value other than making the user feel superior. The fact is there is generally no additional (useful) information conveyed by farther rather than further, so why shouldn't the distinction die?

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Okay:

"Doctor Smith has less patience than Doctor Jones."

"Doctor Smith has fewer patients than Doctor Jones."

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Good one. I would suggest though that that example speaks more to the need for a distinction between "patience" and "patients" than it does for one between count nouns and non-count nouns.

[DrewDevil]

How about:

"Senator Clinton has fewer integrity than Senator Gore."

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I'm with DrewDevil on the fewer/less thing. I was actually going to bring this up myself.

[maryfield48]

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How about:

"Senator Clinton has fewer integrity than Senator Gore."

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You're going the wrong way. The distinction is dying because less is replacing fewer, not the other way around.

"Senator Clinton got less votes than Senator Gore"