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#121
03-01-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Getting rid of publicly funded roads and letting the free market do it's thing is sounding better now isn't it? [/ QUOTE ] Because there's nothing stopping the private owner of a road from taking your picture from a van and issuing you a citation if he deems your driving inappropriate. Yep. Privatization fixes everything. [/ QUOTE ] Speeding cameras are not inheritantly a problem. But if enough people think this is a problem, there won't be speeding cameras, do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Good point. The government is ultimately answerable to the people. That's who government servants take their oaths of office, on pain of prosecution, to serve: the people. 
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#122
03-01-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
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Without arguing the legitimacy of taxation or the government: you're opposed to: the public--through tax dollars--building a road, then the public--through the government--deciding that there should be a maximum speed on these roads, and then finally the public--through tax dollars again--paying someone to enforce those rules. Is that correct? [/ QUOTE ] The problem with this is your use of the word public. For instance- [ QUOTE ] you're opposed to: the public--through tax dollars--building a road, [/ QUOTE ] This public is every tax paying person. [ QUOTE ] then the public--through the government--deciding that there should be a maximum speed on these roads, [/ QUOTE ] How are speed limits usually made? Police department? State Legislators? Local officials? There's really low voter turn out for state and local elections (when there's no presidential race it's like ~20% I believe, even with a presidential race it's like ~50%). So even if the speed limits are decided by elected officials we see that speeding laws are set by whoever the majority of a small minority elects to give the power to. This percentage does not accurately reflect the percentage of "the public" you put forth in your first usage. [ QUOTE ] and then finally the public--through tax dollars again--paying someone to enforce those rules. Is that correct? [/ QUOTE ] Again, the public here is every tax paying citizen. Also, not all participants in "the public" have consented to this type of procedure (if your going to invoke love it or leave it don't bother, I don't want to hijack the thread).
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#123
03-01-2007, 05:31 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
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The government is ultimately answerable to the people. [/ QUOTE ] lol
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#124
03-01-2007, 05:31 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This thread was not about eliminating all traffic laws or removing the speed limit. The question was don't you think that taking a picture and sending it to your home saying pay this ticket you were speeding, is a violation of our personal freedom? Face it the government is getting to big and controlling. It is a fact and there is no arguing this. [/ QUOTE ] So your belief is that it's oppression for you to use someone's property in a way expressly forbidden by the person and then to be punished for that misuse via a means of which you were previously aware (in this case, a ticket)? [/ QUOTE ] I think he's just upset his dad took his car keys away after he got his first ticket. [/ QUOTE ] Lol @ my Dad taking my keys, sorry I am 23 and have never had a speeding ticket, but great way to justify your point. And the roads are the taxpayers not a specific persons. Just wait till they start snapping pictures of people smoking in non smoking areas they are breaking the law right? (sorry for my ignorance but what is a AC)
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#125
03-01-2007, 05:32 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
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Also, not all participants in "the public" have consented to this type of procedure (if your going to invoke love it or leave it don't bother, I don't want to hijack the thread). [/ QUOTE ] This is the fault of specific people within "the public." It's their duty to vote or otherwise bring about policy change if they don't agree with how their tax dollars are being used.
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#126
03-01-2007, 05:34 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
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[ QUOTE ] Excellent idea! When they crash, it'll be a gentle crash. [/ QUOTE ] We can also make it illegal to be out in public without big fluffy mittens on our hands (no more assault and battery injuries) I should rule the world i'm so smart. [/ QUOTE ] Dear Troll, I nowhere ever suggested such a thing. I simply said it would save lives. I never said it would be worth the costs to do so. If you were to drop the speed limit on all roads to 25 mph (and enforce it), there would be virtually no traffic fatalities. This disproves the notion that speed does not kill. Encforcing minimum speed limits or hanging out in the left lane MAY be just as effective as enforcing a 70mph speed limit (as two different possibilities). I am not denying this.
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#127
03-01-2007, 05:35 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This thread was not about eliminating all traffic laws or removing the speed limit. The question was don't you think that taking a picture and sending it to your home saying pay this ticket you were speeding, is a violation of our personal freedom? Face it the government is getting to big and controlling. It is a fact and there is no arguing this. [/ QUOTE ] So your belief is that it's oppression for you to use someone's property in a way expressly forbidden by the person and then to be punished for that misuse via a means of which you were previously aware (in this case, a ticket)? [/ QUOTE ] I think he's just upset his dad took his car keys away after he got his first ticket. [/ QUOTE ] Lol @ my Dad taking my keys, sorry I am 23 and have never had a speeding ticket, but great way to justify your point. And the roads are the taxpayers not a specific persons. Just wait till they start snapping pictures of people smoking in non smoking areas they are breaking the law right? (sorry for my ignorance but what is a AC) [/ QUOTE ] If its a law, I have no problem with them enforcing it. Non-smoking areas may be a horrible law, but someone enforcing it doesn't seem like a dumb idea to me. But it was pretty obvious I was dealing with a spoiled kiddie.
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#129
03-01-2007, 05:37 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
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(sorry for my ignorance but what is a AC) [/ QUOTE ] Anarcho-capitalism. Quite a few people in this forum believe in some form of this. So when I say that the road owner should be able to set and enforce the rules of his road as he sees fit, I'm in a bit of an awkward position because I don't believe that the government can "own" the roads. I just don't see anything inherently wrong with a camera taking a picture of you if you speed. Other things such as tax money being spent to pay for these things and the monopolization of the roads and courts are things I object to but they are a bit of a different matter and have been discussed at great length already in this forum.
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#130
03-01-2007, 05:42 PM
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Re: Speeding Cameras
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This thread was not about eliminating all traffic laws or removing the speed limit. The question was don't you think that taking a picture and sending it to your home saying pay this ticket you were speeding, is a violation of our personal freedom? Face it the government is getting to big and controlling. It is a fact and there is no arguing this. [/ QUOTE ] So your belief is that it's oppression for you to use someone's property in a way expressly forbidden by the person and then to be punished for that misuse via a means of which you were previously aware (in this case, a ticket)? [/ QUOTE ] I think he's just upset his dad took his car keys away after he got his first ticket. [/ QUOTE ] Lol @ my Dad taking my keys, sorry I am 23 and have never had a speeding ticket, but great way to justify your point. And the roads are the taxpayers not a specific persons. Just wait till they start snapping pictures of people smoking in non smoking areas they are breaking the law right? (sorry for my ignorance but what is a AC) [/ QUOTE ] If its a law, I have no problem with them enforcing it. Non-smoking areas may be a horrible law, but someone enforcing it doesn't seem like a dumb idea to me. But it was pretty obvious I was dealing with a spoiled kiddie. [/ QUOTE ] Spoiled kiddie, far from it. I pay for my car and insurance my parents give me no financial support. I guess we should set up cameras all over to enforce laws of all type, that would be much safer for everyone.
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