Fossilman's Account Hacked?

[JohnnyBGood]

Antitrust law is non-objective law based on a socialist myth that free, unregulated markets lead to coercive monopolies. Private companies have no power to coerce; only the government has the power to coerce and should only be used to protect individual rights. With respect to the market place government’s role should only be to settle disputes, enforce contracts and prosecute fraud. The only coercive monopolies are government run such as Slamtrack, public schools, etc. People are forced to pay for these entities.

Antitrust laws have been used to terrorize businessmen for over a century. You can be prosecuted for setting prices too low, too high or for fixing prices with competitors. Anything a company does can be deemed illegal with these laws. Companies have been prosecuted for all the above reasons; initiated by some bureaucrat or jealous competitor.

This infamous group of seven poker players should be ashamed of themselves. Trying to use the heavy hand of government by forcibly attempting to change the way the WPT does business is wrong.

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Antitrust law is non-objective law based on a socialist myth that free, unregulated markets lead to coercive monopolies. Private companies have no power to coerce; only the government has the power to coerce and should only be used to protect individual rights. With respect to the market place government’s role should only be to settle disputes, enforce contracts and prosecute fraud. The only coercive monopolies are government run such as Slamtrack, public schools, etc. People are forced to pay for these entities.

Antitrust laws have been used to terrorize businessmen for over a century. You can be prosecuted for setting prices too low, too high or for fixing prices with competitors. Anything a company does can be deemed illegal with these laws. Companies have been prosecuted for all the above reasons; initiated by some bureaucrat or jealous competitor.

This infamous group of seven poker players should be ashamed of themselves. Trying to use the heavy hand of government by forcibly attempting to change the way the WPT does business is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice try Daniel...stop trying to sound like your lawyer friends and go get some more highlights put into your hair.

[Dynasty]

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Another network would have sprung up and created a WPT type show...its how TV works. WPT was just lucky to spring up as the poker boom was beginning.

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TV doesn't work by shows just springing up.

Stephen Lipscomb wasn't lucky. He had a vision of what televised poker could be. Nobody else seemed to share it.

After Lipscomb showed what could be done with poker, he was immitated by several networks. That's how TV works.

[Dynasty]

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My point is the kindling for a poker boom was already in place. The WPT didn't come up with any innovative ideas to set this off, or any huge investments. They just cheaply filmed a final table, cut it up, and threw it on TV.


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I see no reason to denegrate Stephen Lipscomb's accomplishments by saying he just "cheaply filmed a final table, cut it up, and threw it on TV".

Simply putting poker on U.S. TV, making it appear glamourous and exciting, and promoting the players as stars was itself innovative.

The kindling wasn't there. The kindling is the televised product itself. Poker would never have exploded in popularity without it being promoted on TV the way Lipscomb did.

[TheBronzer]

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Could a company theoretically :

Say they want to sponsor Greg for a product. Greg says "Give me 100k or no deal. " Could this company just go to the WPT and offer them say 25k for Greg's images and other stuff?

If so, that's pretty wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have signed the release form put forth by the WPT, then this is exactly what could happen. A little while ago, when Coke Zero was new, they paid me a fee to use my name in a series of radio commercials. Because the commercials did not use my voice, I did not need to "do" anything, just sell them the right to use my name. If the WPT had my signature on one of their releases from this year, then Coke could have gone to them and gotten permission, and probably for less money. How could that possibly be fair? What if I were not a fan of Coke products? What if I even found them offensive? Yet I would not be able to stop the WPT from selling my name to that company for its advertising use.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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This part certainly sways my view a bit about this lawsuit. The "universal" thing kind of makes me mad and seems a bit absurd. I am now torn and would really like to read up on this and perhaps consult with some experts (ie future law professors).

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Another network would have sprung up and created a WPT type show...its how TV works. WPT was just lucky to spring up as the poker boom was beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

TV doesn't work by shows just springing up.

Stephen Lipscomb wasn't lucky. He had a vision of what televised poker could be. Nobody else seemed to share it.

After Lipscomb showed what could be done with poker, he was immitated by several networks. That's how TV works.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many networks would have gambled on Steve's vision in time...i.e about a year when the actual moneymaker boom began. WPT just was lucky and got there first.

This happens all the time in TV when a great show bounces around networks before some one finally just says [censored] it...lets try this...and then boom you have a hit show. But even if that one person didnt give the go ahead..eventually another one would.

We all shouldnt bow down before the WPT...the poker boom would still be here without it....though PP might not have been the fishiest of fishy site it was/is.

[sekrah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

My point is the kindling for a poker boom was already in place. The WPT didn't come up with any innovative ideas to set this off, or any huge investments. They just cheaply filmed a final table, cut it up, and threw it on TV.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see no reason to denegrate Stephen Lipscomb's accomplishments by saying he just "cheaply filmed a final table, cut it up, and threw it on TV".

Simply putting poker on U.S. TV, making it appear glamourous and exciting, and promoting the players as stars was itself innovative.

The kindling wasn't there. The kindling is the televised product itself. Poker would never have exploded in popularity without it being promoted on TV the way Lipscomb did.

[/ QUOTE ]


Rubbish,.. Lipscomb did nothing innovative at all with the WPT. Today it's still the same crap it was 4 years ago.

The "Rounders" newbies hooked onto WPT.. It wasn't even a blip on the full public radar until ESPN went full throttle with the main event, and yes, it would of happened without the brilliant Steven Lipscomb, Chief Executive Office of the great "WPT" that now profits $180k/year from the poker boom.

Yea what a genius [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] .. Where's WPTE trading at now?? Pinkies? Lipscomb is a feckin moron, unless you consider the way he's bilking WPTE out of a $500k salary, that's pretty good move for him. Congrats shareholders!

[PairTheBoard]

I think Greg should apologize to Daniel for this line,

FossilMan said, "Daniel is out, glad to say"

I think that's what really hurt Daniel's feelings. Friends can disagree about the lawsuit but they don't root for each other to fail in the tournament. It probably stung especially bad considering how how Daniel must have felt right after being knocked out of the big one.

Daniel's hurt feelings were evident in his immediate response when he lashed out in a post he quickly deleted. Daniel should apologize to Greg for that post - which I find so disrepectful to Raymer I don't care to repeat it here.

Daniel had said that if there is any evidence of the WPT abusing their Rights he will reconsider his opinion on the lawsuit. It looks to me like such evidence is being presented in sections 57 and 58 of the Complaint.

From the Complaint:
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57. For example, WPTE markets the "World Poker Tour" video game which competes with, among other things, the "World Championship Poker" line of video games co-Plaintiffs Howard Lederer, Annie Duke and Greg Raymer each have licensed to Crave Entertainment, Inc - which manufactures and sells the "World Championship Poker" video games - the exclusive right to use their names, likenesses, images in conjunction with Crave video games. WPTE, however, upon information and belief, has used video footage of Messrs. Lederer and Raymer and Ms Duke playing in the WPT tournament as part of its "World Poker Tour" video game. The co-Plaintiffs were never notified by WPTE of this fact, nor did they receive any compensation for WPTE's coercive use of their intellectual property rights.

58. Another example is provided by WPTE's exploitation of the intellectual property rights of co-Plaintiff Phil Gordon, who is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of Expert Insight, a company which markets instructional poker DVD's and books among other things. In connection with Expert Insight, Mr. Gordon and co-Plaintiff Andrew Bloch run the "Las Vegas Academy" poker fantasy camp, where interested poker and blackjack players can pay for instruction from Messrs. Gordon and Bloch. WPTE runs its own poker fantasy camp - "World Poker Tour Boot Camp" - which is a head-to-head competitor with the Las Vegas Academy. Upon information and belief, WPTE has used video footage of Mr. Gordon playing in WPT tournaments - without his prior knowledge or any compensation - to promote its World Poker Tour Boot Camp.

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I really can't see why WPTE should be granted such Broad Rights to Player names and Images that go beyond promotion of the actual Tournament Production. Technically, I don't think they should even have the right to a player's name and image to promote a show unless he is actually in that particular Tournament. I hope the Court agrees and limits them to that venue. If they want a player to help them promote one of their other products then they should have to negotiate with that player just like everybody else. Can you imagine the NBA selling basketballs signed by Michael Jordon and not having to pay him?

btw, The WPT is doing better financially than has been reported on this thread. From the News Archives at Card Player:

"World Poker Tour Enterprises (WPTE) has turned a profit of $2.6 million in this year’s second financial quarter. In the same quarter last year, the company lost $0.4 million.

Revenues increased because WPTE delivered 10 episodes of the WPT and nine episodes of its new show, the Professional Poker Tour, this quarter. WPTE delivered eight episodes of the WPT the same quarter last year and no episodes of PPT last year. The PPT began airing on the Travel Channel in July.

WPTE lost $1.4 million in Q4 of last year and $5 million for all of 2005. In the first quarter of this year, the company made $3.6 million"

Looks like the WPT is up $6.2 million so far this year.



I really don't see the Downside that Daniel is worried about. He says that the issue of the Online Sites will get dragged into the case. I think Raymer claimed it won't. I don't see why it shouldn't. WPT wants to promote its own site and the players certainly can't afford to let go of their intellectual property rights in that area. That's really the big enchillada. So bring it. This is a Civil Case. It's not up to a Civil Court to get involved with whatever the Senate might be up to in their deliberations over the online gambling bill. As far as exposure goes, I think everybody knows about the online sites already.


I will copy this post at Daniel's FCP site.


PairTheBoard

[john voight]

greg, if you are going to court, I wouldn't be posting anything on here. I'm guessing the WPT lawyers are all over this thread. Don't feed them.

gl, I hope you win.

and to all the ppl who are agaisnt greg; US gives him power to sue if he feels it is right. the court will decide wether its valid or not. no need to judge him for standing up for his beliefs.

peeece

[TheBronzer]

[ QUOTE ]
greg, if you are going to court, I wouldn't be posting anything on here. I'm guessing the WPT lawyers are all over this thread. Don't feed them.

gl, I hope you win.

and to all the ppl who are agaisnt greg; US gives him power to sue if he feels it is right. the court will decide wether its valid or not. no need to judge him for standing up for his beliefs.

peeece

[/ QUOTE ]


UUUUUUUUUHH...I think Greg knows what he can and can't say publicly. He is a lawyer and not a retard.