ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[Felix_Nietzsche]

If someone ends up with two accounts on the same table and takes advantage, it affects EV. I don't think ZJ did... although I do think if he got two accounts at a final table it would be impossible to avoid. The chief affect on others' EV is, as you stated, having to play against extra entries from a good player.
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No......Tell that fish story to the tourists.
Having two IDs at the same table is a HUGE advantage.

Example#1
If Zee Justin was dealt AK and AJ and gets reraised, he knows that one of his outs are gone and that a lowly 22 can beat him. He can also place his opponent on hands MUCH-MUCH more accurately.

Example #2 (the see-saw raise)
If ZeeJustin gets a powerful hand he could use the other ID to keep re-rasing the pot to sqeeze out as many chips from the victim that he can.

Example#3
If ZeeJustin discards two hearts and either he or his opponent are on a flush draw.......This is a BIG ADVANTAGE. All good 7 card stud players keep track of the discards.

In touneys the money is pretty lousy UNLESS you finish in the top 3 spots. If ZeeJustin was able to get two IDs to the final table he GREATLY improves his odds to finsih in the top 3. One 1st place finsh is equal to about 100 money finishes.

Also is you have a 1000 players in a tourney with 10 player tables this gives you 100 tables. The odds of one of his six IDs being at the same table are 1-.99^6 = 6%

If he plays survival poker and all six IDs survive to when there are 50 tables then the odds get better. 1-.98^6 = 12%. 25 tables 1-.96^6 = 28%. If he can get 5 IDs to survive to 10 tables the odds are 1-.8^5 = 67%. THERE IS A VERY STRONG CHANCE THAT HE FREQUENTLY HAD two IDs at the same table many times. That is not me speaking. This is MATH speaking. If he ever got 3 IDs at the same table then this would give him a HUGE advantage.

With six IDs in a MTT his best strategy was to play Ultra survival poker in hopes that two of his IDs end up at the same table.

Only Amarilla Slim has a worse reputation than ZeeJustin now.

PS
Could ZeeJustin's explanation be any more pathetic? The gist was that most other poker players cheat in one form or another. I suppose his actually thinks he was justified in his actions. I suppose Dutch Boyd is happy now because his poker reputation looks golden compared to ZeeJustin's.

[shaniac]

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I fear that we have only discovered the tip of the iceberg. PokerStars has refunded money to me three times saying that I was cheated by other players. The total amount of these refunds was about $30.

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This is clearly the tip of the iceberg in terms of the amount of cheating that goes on out there (I shudder to think how much worse it is in, oh, say, a high stake O8 games). We shall see if it's the tip of the iceberg as far as consequences go or, as you suggest, a way of scaring people straight.

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I have played with ZeeJustin a few times at the $5/10 NL cash tables and I now wonder if perhaps he had two identities at that table. His reputation is shot. Only Amarilla Slim has a worse reputation now.

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I think we can stop speculating about OTHER ways that ZJ cheated. I'd be willing to bet that it never went beyond the extent that he mentions (a hefty extent) and that in his own mind, he actually didn't think he was doing anything too wrong.

I also believe that ZJ can salvage his reputation and one day rejoin the poker community as a respected citizen, but he has some serious reckoning to do before that happens.

[adanthar]

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I hope this analogy is not tasteless, but I liken it to the first bomb that went off in the WTC in 1993. Hardly anyone noticed. JJProdigy was plane #1 and ZJ #2.

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Well plane #3 is clearly inbound for Stars, but where's plane #4, Pacific? Absolute? Truepoker? I can't tell, it's gone off the radar

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What we need to focus on here is not directing anger, but we should all just laugh hysterically. Consider the following:

1) A big name just lost $140k last week for playing in multiple tournaments

2) Some guy who plays $500 SnG's, inexplicably keeps a 200 buyin bankroll online while doing the same thing.

3) Said player posts in his blog that he's on a new name and how to find him

4) All tournament reports are recorded in easily accessible places online.


I don't know how anyone can be angry at the guy, I still haven't stopped laughing. How could anyone be this dumb?

[/ QUOTE ]

The SNG forum met in Vegas last weekend and most of us were alternating between 'whoa, it would sure suck to be JJ right now' and 'wow, how could he be that stupid'. Little did we know.

[William]

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I think we can stop speculating about OTHER ways that ZJ cheated. I'd be willing to bet that it never went beyond the extent that he mentions (a hefty extent) and that in his own mind, he actually didn't think he was doing anything too wrong.

I also believe that ZJ can salvage his reputation and one day rejoin the poker community as a respected citizen, but he has some serious reckoning to do before that happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be a very open-minded person. I have not read all your posts in this thread, but you seem to be doing all you can to convince us that it's not a big deal and that we should try to forgive him and let him be part of this community again.

I don't think so... (because I dislike cheats very, very much)

[helpmeout]

Woohoo I made it to the end.

I don't how anyone can seriously not think that party should take all that is in his accounts.

Having 2 accounts at the same table is such a massive advantage, jesus any +EV player could seriously make a big score so much easier.

His bluff equity could be massive 2 hands a raise and then a reraise anyone else would pretty much need the nuts to call.

Trapping players with AA or KK.

Chip dumping

Extra information with cards like 7 card stud.

Say you were in a big tourny ZJ could have busted you out taking a massive risk because he has other accounts left, or he trapped you with 2 accounts. This could have cost someone serious dollars.

Its a good day, I can't believe I wasted my time reading through all that [censored].

[Daliman]

Wow. My eyes/head hurts from all this. Here is my take, with a disclaimer to start;

About 2 years ago, ZJ contacted me via PM, asking some info regarding SNG's since I was one of the first recognizable successful $215 multitablers in these forums. I gave him the info, and we IM'd back and forth a bit. We got along just fine, and he said he'd really like to meet me sometime, all cool with me. About a year ago, I got involved in a thread, strangely enough about collusion, in the STT forum with him where we basically got in a pissing match regarding collsion edge and such that El D's +EV prop bet radar drew him to. Mostly, the whole thing was a melange of bravado, miscommunication, misunderstanding, distration, and tilt. I didn't really get too worked up about it, since I used to get into about 3 flame wars a month back then, but ever since then, ZJ has had a real additude about and to me. THis boiled over a bit about 3 weeks ago when I found out he was saying some things I didn't care for to relatively anonymous people in IM, and I called him out for it, and he feigned indignation at his private conversations being divulged. The chat ended with both of us pissed, and him blocking my IM. I was/am pretty annoyed by the situation, but will try to be as objective as possible, even though I do exact more than a bit of satisfaction from all of this.
-Just as a funny aside, I remember playing 10-20 Limit with URmeowed on paradise about 4 years ago, and him getting indignent with me for calling his CO raise 7 handed or so with KJs and hitting a K vs his AJ. He crabbed at me for about 15 minutes, as If I was supposed to know who he was. GOod times...

- Until recently, I never considered multi-accounting MTT's "cheating". I suspect many of you feel/felt the same. The more I think about it, the more I totally understand that it is cheating.
- curtains is about as straight an arrow as they come. To impugn him because he may have known ZJ's actions is weak. He is not policeman to the poker world, and I'm sure many of you know people who have done something untoward or illegal in one sense or another during some time in your life, poker related or not. To say you are as guilty or share guilt is silly. Leave curtains alone.
- As El D said, this puts a new light on ZJ's recent successes. He was obviously trying to brand himself and make himself more visible in the poker world, but this definitely goes against the "no publicity is bad publicity" adage.
- ZJ's response is exactly as I expected, given how he has handled adversity in the boards and on the internet in my experience. He's 19(20?), successful, intelligent and bulletproof. I have never heard of or seen him ever making a full admission of fault or being wrong, and certainly didn;t expect to here. He's a kid, and obviously lacking in maturity, which isn't really a slam; his maturity is about equal to most kids his age.
- Some of these picture posts and reponses are up there with the funniest things I have ever read on 2p2.
- El D once again shows why he is the king of 2p2. I've had a couple run-ins with El D on these boards, and strangely enough been on the right side a couple times, but I've always respected him, his posts, and his play. That mask is just too alluring...

Yours in Schadenfreude,
Daliman

[Mike Jett]

lol.

[suzzer99]

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Ooooohhhh. Good one. Listen you little freak, when SI finds out their poker poster boy was banned from a poker site and had $100K confiscated and prints that story, do you think anyone is going to give a [censored] about your "snitching-ethics?" [censored] no they aren't going to give a rat's. Public opinion is going to turn massively against online gambling and Congress will pass a law banning it and most of you cheaters will be out of job. Servers you right.

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Surprisingly enough, you have a point here, albeit a simple one. And yes I agree, this hurts the game. ZeeJustin pissed in the drinking well. No doubt about it.

I just don't like your tone, you know, the self validation, the name calling, the baseless accusations...

raisins

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the threatening to report everyone and their dog...

[shaniac]

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You seem to be a very open-minded person. I have not read all your posts in this thread, but you seem to be doing all you can to convince us that it's not a big deal and that we should try to forgive him and let him be part of this community again.

I don't think so... (because I dislike cheats very, very much)

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No, that wasn't my point at all. Overall, I think it IS a big deal, as will regaining his reputation be. Curtains put up a good post on that subject though.

[CardSharpCook]

Went out to the bar. Had a few beers. The over/under was 1275. I lost $5.