ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[ackbleh]

I think it was a poor decision. I think it's a mistake and bad to put yourself in that situation. I've had all the opportunity to do the same things Zee did, and declined...that should tell you what I think about it.

In terms of could this be manipulated and used to collude, obviously it could. In fact, I'm sure people have.
I understand why people are making so much fun of ZJ's excuse that he just loaded extra tables. I see the humor too, and the jokes are funny. But from what I know of ZJ, I do believe him. You don't have to, but I do, and I was only discussing the specific instance of his cheating.

Obviously multiple entries in MTTs should be prohibited, and this is one of the reasons. I just think that his motives were not to cheat in this particular way, and that doing so would not fit within his view of what is morally correct. You can flip all the crap you want at the irony of my referencing ZJ's morals, but I don't think he's an evil person. I think it's ridiculous that he'd so quickly try to defend himself and draw the line between different types of cheating and how he did wasn't really that bad, but I do think there is some sort of a secondary line there that he didn't intend to cross...and probably didn't cross... of explicit collusion at the same table.

[El Diablo]

curtains,

"got the general impression from those previous conversations with him that he was an ethical person"

I had previously thought this as well. Then, recently, my opinion of ZJ changed drastically when he made it very clear in the NL thread I linked earlier in this thread that his idea of ethics was that anything you could get away with beyond the most absolutely literal interpretation of a set of rules was perfectly fine. His actions and justifications of them in this thread have been perfectly consistent with the (lack of) moral compass that he displayed in the other thread.

[Matt24]

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That has been my point that such disassociation from such "friends" is the very very least he should do. If he won't do that, then it says something about his own integrity, or perhaps more charitably, about his insecurity in being able to find more ethical friends. And I really can't believe the pool of poker players who cheat is such a large percentage of the total, that it would be difficult for him to find such new and honest poker friends. However maybe the percentage of ethically dishonest players is much higher among tourney players for some reason I am not aware of.

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Are you saying that if I feel if one of my friends is doing something unethical, then I have no integrity if I remain his friend? A friend of mine does do one thing that I find somewhat unethical, but in all honesty it doesn't lower my opinion of him at all, but I have told him numerous times that I don't agree with it.

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Matt,

If it involves hurting another person or a company one works for more than just minimally, then yes it does lessen your integrity by continuing to associate with him. Thus I am not talking about stealing paperclips from his employer or giving other girls besides his girlfriend an occasional pat on the ass.

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Well it doesn't hurt anyone or a company so I'm thinking I'm good

[BluffTHIS!]

Curtains,

Since you are presumably still in contact with ZJ, and since he probably is refusing to read this thread further, I think you should try to convince him to come back here and answer the unaswered questions:

1) Is he now willing to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for his actions with no justifications or complaints about party's actions being excessive?

2) Is he willing to admit the damage he has done to the ingegrity of online poker ESPECIALLY since he has sought to maintain a high profile with his website?

3) How would he answer the strategy question posed by KKF?



Thanks,

Bluff

[midfielderdave]

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I don't really get this one bit. I guess it's all about personality types, but good grief, we KNOW Justin is a world-class player, and his 'ZeeJustin' account results prove it. I mean honestly, the ZeeJustin account has had big wins on both Stars and Party. His ROI is ridiculously high, and he is making thousands of dollars a month, maybe more, playing poker, and he's what 19? 20?


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i don't think his previous "results" can show he was a consistent winner if he possibly used multiple accounts to get the "results" did he use them on SNGs? i looked up to ZJ but it's gonna take a lot for him to regain a positive image IMO.

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If this isn't enough for him then that's really quite sad. Justin, you were prestigious, had your whole life ahead of you, are in the top 5 percentile of incomes for your age, such a bright future in poker, and you still feel the need to cheat. I think this says a lot about you.



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FYP

[shag]

ok we all know this is cheating. we all know its terrible for poker and we all know that it will continue and is impossible to stop completely. We also know the ZJ's ''statement'' was a joke.

[Matt24]

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it's gonna take a lot for him to regain a positive image IMO.



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ZeeJustin is now the Kobe Bryant of online poker.

I saw on Outside the Lines the other night though that Kobe is working to regain it with those new commercials, I have no clue what zeejustin could do.

[El Diablo]

ackbleh,

I hear where you're coming from and used to feel similarly about ZJ (and perhaps still do to some degree). However, reading his justifications/explanations here and going back to some of his other positions on what is acceptable ethically, I have to reassess my previous impression of him.

The very fact that he chose to play both accounts the times he found himself at the same table is the most telling thing. The fact that he found himself at the same table multiple times, yet still kept putting SIX [SIX! SIX!!!! SIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] horses into the tournament is also telling. He clearly did not go out of his way to NOT take advantage of the opportunities that cheating presented him with (I mean, except for opening up more SNGs so he would forget the first guy's hole cards).

I find myself wondering this, and I think we should all wonder the same thing. If one of his fellow six horse online tourney players found himself short-stacked with ZJ as the chipleader in a multi-entry satellite and IM'd "hey ZJ, pls fold your blind to me here, I really need it and you're guaranteed in already" do you really think ZJ would still play straight up? I doubt it.

[curtains]

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curtains,

"got the general impression from those previous conversations with him that he was an ethical person"

I had previously thought this as well. Then, recently, my opinion of ZJ changed drastically when he made it very clear in the NL thread I linked earlier in this thread that his idea of ethics was that anything you could get away with beyond the most absolutely literal interpretation of a set of rules was perfectly fine. His actions and justifications of them in this thread have been perfectly consistent with the (lack of) moral compass that he displayed in the other thread.

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Not sure what thread you are talking about but I don't read the NL forum that often.

[Lori]

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Since you are presumably still in contact with ZJ, and since he probably is refusing to read this thread further, I think you should try to convince him to come back here and answer the unaswered questions:


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You're kidding right? He should never be allowed back here ever again after what he's done. I assume he will be banned as soon as someone with authority actually sees this stuff.

Lori