Stars catches a bot and it's........my mom

[primetime32]

This story makes no sense on many levels.

first, it makes no sense that a mom, who apparently isnt computer savvy, is all of a sudden multitabling 6 tables. It also makes no sense for stars to randomly shut down her account unless they had a good reason.

on the flip side, teddy would have to be one dumb fellow to post up all of this crap if in fact he was cheating. Since the funds in the account couldnt be too much, he risks far more going public than just dealing with the closing of the account and moving on.

here are a couple of questions:
1- How was the account originally funded?
2- When was her hotmail account created? Was it in and around the time the stars account was opened?
3- if you helped her set up a hotmail account (probably to sign up and play at stars) why didnt you help rid her computer of adaware and viruses by installing the free programs (at download.com) that could do all of that in minutes?

4- And why arent you posting any of these emails? it would appear that there is some dialogue between your mom and stars and these emails would help exonerate yourself if they showed that stars had no case.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
in one of your first posts in this thread, you said this:

[ QUOTE ]
My mom forwarded me the emails that Lee Jones wrote to her, so I could indeed post them, but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate:

[/ QUOTE ]


in one of the last posts in this thread, you said this:

[ QUOTE ]
She said she's going to forward me all of the emails she exchanged with Stars support / Lee, so perhaps I'll know more after I sift through them.


[/ QUOTE ]

your story is full of holes.


i no longer have any doubt that stars found something untoward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on granny, you can see that the two bolded statements are NOT exactly the same, and do not mean exactly the same thing. Don't try so hard here.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
i no longer have any doubt that stars found something untoward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch Granny, yeah I think you're right.

[teddyFBI]

I am bored, so figured I'd reply again:

Many people have seized upon the issue of how a tech-unsavvy mom (are there any other kind?) could 6-table. Believe me that I was as stunned as anyone. After she found out that I played online poker, she started playing on Stars for play money, b/c she usually takes an interest in things I do. I yelled at her when I found out she started playing for real money (even just the nano-limits) because she and I had had discussions about poker, and hearing her understanding of the math / strategy of hold'em, I thought she'd be a gigantic donkey and was wasting her time/money. (But I guess that's typical of the nanolimits.) When I went home to visit once and she asked me to watch her play, I was nearly beside myself watching her 6-table on an 800x600 monitor. It was crazy but by her own admission: she said she simply got bored playing only one or two 2 or 5 cent table.

(A lot of people are also suggesting that I have something to do with the playing on her account -- nothing could be further from the truth. She actually lives up in Canada, and I only visit once or twice a year, and don't have access to her computer -- if I did, you can believe I would make sure her virus software were up to date.)

Primetime: the hotmail account has nothing to do with anything -- I just cited it as an example of how helpless she can be regarding internet stuff sometimes.

One of the only replies here that sort of adhered to the theme of discussion that I sought to stimulate was the very first one, when Caldarooni wrote that the immplications of this kind of scared him. That's how I feel about it too...I really could care less about my mom being able to play the nanolimits on Stars...I've been telling her she's wasting her time for months...but the implications for the rest of us who actually derive a reasonable livelihood from the higher-limit games are important.
Gregatron's point is also a good one: I had certainly built up a little goodwill on these forums thus far -- I would really really really have to be an idiot to jeopardize that with a ridiculous thread like this. I am already regretting having started it, but now that it's out there and I'm 'elbow-deep' in it, I owe it to myself/other posters here to see it through to the end. I stress that I only learned about this whole situation less than 36 hours ago, so if there seem to be 'holes' or other inconsistencies, it's because I still don't have all the info myself and there are several questions I'd also like to see answered. I'm learning as I go here, and everything I hear is second-hand via my mother's communication with Stars. All I can promise to do is keep posting as I learn things, which I will.

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i no longer have any doubt that stars found something untoward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch Granny, yeah I think you're right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you both. I think Stars DID find something going on. The important Q, I suppose is how it could have happened to someone who (best as I can tell) is an innocent peon in this whole thing, and that's the question with the really important implications for the rest of us. The ultimate resolution to this issue might simply end up being: 'Hey everyone, keep your antivirus software up to date because there's shady people out there who can exploit your negligence,' which really wouldn't be much different from the conclusion in several other threads. I'm doing the best to get to the bottom of this as well.

[danzasmack]

just post some emails and end all the "this is bs"

[MicroBob]

teddy - i think you need to post the e-mails already.

[teddyFBI]

After having read through all of her correspondence, the only tidbit that Jeff provides is that they have evidence that at one time her account was playing for 43 straight hours. Obviously, that is a red flag if there ever was one. Last night she swore to me she typically only plays 1 or 2 at once, but has certainly NEVER played more than 4 or 5. Here is the email I just wrote to Lee -- I hope he replies, and will report back if he chooses to. At this point, I see 3 plausible options:
1) Her computer has somehow been compromised with a virus/Trojan and the hacker either got her Stars password or was somehow exploiting her computer.
2) Stars has made an administrative mistake (which I highly doubt.)
3) My mother is, in fact, a clandestine bot-programmer and is lying to me about having been caught red-handed testing her devious scheme at the nanolimits, unfortunately before she could let it loose on the $300/$600 tables.
Clearly I think #1 is most likely at this juncture.

My email to Lee:
Hi again Lee, I promise this will be the ONLY email you get from me on this matter, but I have taken a personl interest in this (only because having known my mother now for 26 years, it is unconceivable - truly inconceivable - that she has any culpability in this matter). You have corresponded with me quite cordially, once about the ZeeJustin matter, another time when I finished qiute high in the blogger's freeroll, and again in approving my application for the Stars $100/$200 tables.

I have always held you in the highest regard (my mother incredulously forwarded me the emails she got from Jeff), and if you say you trust Jeff's judgement 6 ways to Sunday, I have no doubt that he is incredibly competent and judicious. (In fact, I told my mother after having read Jeff's emails that even though I am sure she must be frustrated, it was actually a breath of fresh air in some respects, that she had a smart and verbose support representative taking a personal interest in her matter and replying to her promptly -- no one would EVER get that at Party.)

I will question only one thing: the 43 straight hours of playing -- if I were an online poker room manager, that would also set off alarm bells in my head...clearly a red flag -- so I implore you or Jeff to look into that because that is where the mistake (if there is one, which as you can tell I would be willing to stake my own livelihood on) would lie. My mother last night assures me that she has never played more than 4 or 5 hours in a row. She assures me of that. If she had indeed been playing 43 hours straight, it seems to me that you would be able to actually go and pull up 43 consecutive hours of hand histories. If you actually have such a trail of hand histories, that would be the 'smoking gun' that would convince us both that something untoward was going on.

I know very little about Stars' bot detection policies, and I actually approve of your/Jeff's apparent reluctance to divulge specific procedures. I have rallied against cheaters and bot users since the day I started playing online (as you might remember from my ZeeJustin email to you), and I agree wholeheartedly that keeping bot-detection procedures secret is imperative to stay one step ahead of the bot-makers. I am not asking for you to divulge any proprietary techniques, only that you look into this 43 hours straight thing.

I am only taking an interest in this matter because my mother is relatively unsophisticated when it comes to online poker and simply doesn't know the right questions to ask (as you might be able to tell from her relatively unsophisticated questions to Jeff as to whether her playing many tables at once might have "looked" like 43 hours of play...a silly question as you and I both recognize, but although she's a smart lady, she simply knows very little about the mechanics of online poker -- I tried to explain PokerTracker to her once and it was like trying to explain the theory of relativity to a toddler). I, on the other hand, know a fair amount about online poker, and thought that at the very least I might be able to ask the right questions about the relevant issues.

And it's this 43 consecutive hours of play that, to me, is impossible to reconcile.
Thanks for listening. I would not have taken time out of my day (nor imposed on your time) unless I thought looking into issues such as this one were integral to both my livelihood (as a poker player) and yours (as the manager of the most well-reputed poker room out there.)

Best,

[danzasmack]

nah dude, the emails from Pstars

[TimWillTell]

The only reason I can think of, why the emails haven't been posted jet, would be because they show the facts from a different perspective.

By the way, 800 miles distance, or even in Canada, would give no problem at all, if one wants to set up another account on mom's name. Nor would it be a problem to control mom's computer from one's one. It would be just as easy as living next door.
So it seems strange to me that this distance-thing is used in defence.

My gues is Teddy posted in the heat of the moment and has regretted it more and more.

Can't wait to see the emails though.