Most Overrated Baseball Players of All-Time

[SuperUberBob]

Phil Rizzuto

[DesertCat]

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The thing with McGwire is that the only reason he gets in the HOF is his home runs.

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That's silly. McGwire has the 11th highest OPS+ (which is OPS adjusted for era, ballpark, etc) ever. He was a great hitter who had a very high on base percentage. When he hit the ball he creamed it.

People who confuse batting average with hitting ability don't understand baseball.

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But if he took steroids, what puts him in the hall? I think a lot of the voters are going to remember how he acted in front of congress saying "I am not here to talk about the past.".

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If Big Mac took steriods it was at a time they weren't against baseball rules, and he was likely competing against athletes doing the same thing (Clemens). But it might have been illegal, and when he was called before congress he had no immunity from prosecution and the statute of limitations had not expired. He was facing possible prison time for admitting to anything.

I'd like to see one poster here volunteer to testify under oath about their drug use without any immunity...

If you take the steriods issue out of it, he's easily one of the greatest players of all time and deserves first ballot induction. And he set Pac-10 HR records, and shattered the MLB rookie home run record with 49 HR in a short season (150 games), all before Canseco claims to have introduced him to steroids. And after Jose introduced him to steroids, Big Mac had the worst 6 years of his career.

And since testing has started, HR's are still being hit at near record rates, putting a lie to the myth that the spike in home run rates was majorly driven by steroids. Instead it's pretty clear that it's been driven by smaller ball parks and weightlifting (which was thought to be deleterious to performance before the 1980s), with a small assist from steriods. It's clear Big Mac didn't need steriods to hit the vast majority of his home runs.

And Big Mac played in the biggest, toughest ball parks in both leagues for his entire career, which actually stunted his home run production, probably more than steroids could even help it.

And what would Cal Ripken have testifed to congress about his use of steriods to help him set the consecutive games streak? Or Roger Clemens about his use of performance enhancing drugs to become of the greatest pitchers of all time? I guess we won't find out. It seems like those hearings were a bit selective in who they called, no?

[catalyst]

nolan ryan
carlton fisk

[Propertarian]

C: Ausmus ist the best I can think of off the top of my head. Replacement level player who has made, what, 20 million bucks in the last 6 or 7 years? I don't agree with those who say Fisk...while his peak value isn't amazing, his career value may be the highest of any catcher ever.
1b: Hal Chase (negative value since he intentionally threw games-especially big ones- all of the time; I'd rather have Royce Clayton at first)
Perez and Garvey are also way overrated
2b: Pass.
3b: Traynor
ss: Luis Aparico /Derek Jeter
Aparico could run, but you can't steal first. League avg. player who is in the hall.
Derek Jeter is perhaps the worst defensive shortstop with over 1000 games at the position.
OF: Joe Carter. OMG RBIS!!! ZOMG making an out 70% of the time, costing his teammates 500+ RBIs vs. an average player in his career.
OF: Roberto Clemente. Overrated defensively (made a ton of errors and was not fast). Overrated offensively: BA: .317. Secondary avg: .200. Essentially any player with his kind of skill set (diving catches that a truly great OF would get to standing up with ease, batting average based offense without power of discipline) has historically been overrated. Speaking of which:
OF: Tony Gwynn . Somebody (well, some bigtime, well compensated baseball writer) just wrote an article saying he was the best hitter since Ted Williams. In reality, Tony Gwynn was not a better hitter or baseball player than John Olerud. Gwynn hit an empty .338; his OPS was 847. Olerud's OPS was 863; more than making up the gap in BA via many more walks and more power. Gwynn stole 319 bases, but was caught 125 times, so he didn't add much of anything by trying to steal; if he had never made an attempt in his career, his teams might have lost a game or two more over the course of his career. Both played a hitter's position primarily, and were good defensively.

If you can't find a hitter better than John Olerud to call the best hitter in the last 60 years, you might be a sportswriter.
SP: Drysdale
Koufax. Played in an insane pitcher's area, mostly in an insane pitcher's park, with a great defense and offense. Pedro Martinez would have had five seasons with an ERA under 1.50 and a winning % of over 850 if he played his career with the Dodgers of that era.
Ryan:
Roger Clemens career ERA: 3.10. Career ERA for leagues he played in: 4.46
Nolan Ryan career ERA: 3.19. Career League ERA: 3.57.

Roger Clemens was a better pitcher in his 10th best season than Ryan was in his best season, yet if you walk into a sports bar or sportswriters convention and take a vote on who was better, Ryan might win.
Rp: Rollie Fingers; out of all the relievers to make the hall, they pick Fingers? At least 50 rp who had more value.

[VarlosZ]

For those that are saying Ripken is overrated because he didn't have a high peak, here. According to BP, Ripken's 1991 was the second best season ever, by anyone, being worth 17 wins above a replacement shortstop.

[evank15]

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C: Ray Schalk
1B: Steve Garvey
2B: Pete Rose(have to put him somewhere)
SS: Derek Jeter
3B: Brooks Robinson
OF: Roberto Clemente
OF: Lou Brock
OF: Joe Carter
SP: Nolan Ryan
SP: Sandy Koufax
RP: Todd Jones

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Clemente and Koufax do not belong anywhere near this list.

And fwiw, Maddux's 1.56 in 94 (and 1.63 the next year) is more impressive than Gibson's 1.12 in 68 IMO.

When I saw the title of this thread, the first name that came to mind was Nolan Ryan. He was a good, extremely durable pitcher. One of the greats? Not even close.

[anatta]

Isn't it obvious why Blyleven is so hated? Maybe Dutch racism isn't as blantant today as it was in Johnny Vander Meer's era, but believe me, ignorance and intolerance still lurks just beneath the surface.

Nobody's calling him "a Dike" or throwing wooden shoes at him, but sadly, we haven't come near as far as we'd like to think. I recall stories of Bert's early days in Texas, where redneck "fans" just couldn't accept that there was "one of them" on the club. Drunk hecklers with their - "Go back to Dutch...err I mean Holland...err the Netherlands...whatever the [censored] you call it...", but Bert never let it get to him. God blessed Bert Blyleven with more than a great hook, he was blessed with a little something I call "Character" - Something sadly missing in today's game.

[fingokra]

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Isn't it obvious why Blyleven is so hated? Maybe Dutch racism isn't as blantant today as it was in Johnny Vander Meer's era, but believe me, ignorance and intolerance still lurks just beneath the surface.

Nobody's calling him "a Dike" or throwing wooden shoes at him, but sadly, we haven't come near as far as we'd like to think. I recall stories of Bert's early days in Texas, where redneck "fans" just couldn't accept that there was "one of them" on the club. Drunk hecklers with their - "Go back to Dutch...err I mean Holland...err the Netherlands...whatever the [censored] you call it...", but Bert never let it get to him. God blessed Bert Blyleven with more than a great hook, he was blessed with a little something I call "Character" - Something sadly missing in today's game.

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This post reminds me of a rather studious fellow I once new. He was a man of few words, making those he chose to speak of interest to anyone in his presence. Once, hearing the ramblings of his peers on prejudice, discrimination, social injustice, and the like, he interupted.

"Two things in this world that I really hate," he said. With pause, he finished "Intolerance of other cultures, and the @%*$& Dutch!"

I never get much support on this, But I think Gary Carter was overrated, and that he was very much his own PR machine ( aw shucks, look at me).

[bholdr]

no question about it- george sisler had a completly empty batting avg- no power, few walks, marginal defense, and a hugly inflated reputation, just 'cause he got the hits/season record (since broken by ichiro). I've heard writers claim that he was regarded as a rival to ruth for the best hitter of their era. no gaddamn way. he doesn't even deserve the hall, not by a long shot.

also, Cy Young... I'm not sayin' that he wasn't a GREAT pitcher, but the fact that he has more wins than anyone else has obscured the fact that he also has the most losses ever.

also on my overrated list:
Nolan Ryan (good, but not as good as people think)
Griffey Jr (truly great, but he was hyped as the next Mays)
Sosa (a la dave kingman)
Joe Carter (see Dids' post)



OH! one more i just remembered:

Hal Chase