Sometimes SNGs aren't poker: Open-Folding QQ 3-Handed?

[GreekHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Say you call and ace flops you have no idea if villian has that or not. I would rather dictate when I go allin rather then letting the aggressor dictate my play. In this spot I would rather just run the risk of only winning the blinds and outplay the villian headsup.

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If an Ace flops and villain bets, you're pretty much forced to fold here. Even if he doesn't put you all in, you will be put all-in by the river. Even if you flop the nuts like

Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

and villain pushes, you can't really call because you'll lose too frequently to a straight or flush draw.

[sanmarcosrun1]

Sorry for my bad typing skills. i caused you to misunderstand what i was saying. I am saying to dictate and go allin preflop with the queens and not on the flop. I agree with what you say with that situation i was refering to preflop is better option due to the fact of the situation you just brought up that could happen.

[GreekHouse]

I understood exactly what you were saying. I was merely pointing out that your hand is also completely unplayable postflop, so you really don't have much equity even if he just calls, because you will be forced to fold to almost everything for the same reason that you have to fold if you put in a standard raise and then he pushes against you.

[raptor517]

i make it 500 and pray to god he pushes. what is so difficult about this hand? holla

[GreekHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
i make it 500 and pray to god he pushes. what is so difficult about this hand? holla

[/ QUOTE ]

"This is a Stars 6-handed $119 turbo. 2 places paid."

"The BB has been sitting out the entire SNG."

"Hero (t2995)
SB (t5675)
BB (t330)"

[good2cu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i make it 500 and pray to god he pushes. what is so difficult about this hand? holla

[/ QUOTE ]

"This is a Stars 6-handed $119 turbo. 2 places paid."

"The BB has been sitting out the entire SNG."

"Hero (t2995)
SB (t5675)
BB (t330)"

[/ QUOTE ]

So ummmm open shoving is +3.3% if SB calls with any 2. So lets see, we miniraise SB shoves with any 2 and we instant call, yell shippp it, then turn the tables on the SB open pushing every hand. Or if you are risk averse just open shove.

Open folding here is SOOOOOOO TERRIBLE. SB folds then keeps pwning you.

Miniraising and folding to a raise is terrible as pushing is HUGLY +EV.

I can't believe this theard has this many replies.

I just lost a 5k HU on stars.

I am going to go kill myself.

[Snarf]

Here's a dumb question that no one has brought up..

On PS, if you're sitting out and you're blind all-in...

You lose. You're out. Regardless of the cards, you muck and lose.

I've read a couple points about 'if the shortie doulbes up a couple times...'

Just curious how the site in question handles it...

Very interesting thread to read....

[ALReturnsLOL]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a dumb question that no one has brought up..

On PS, if you're sitting out and you're blind all-in...

You lose. You're out. Regardless of the cards, you muck and lose.

I've read a couple points about 'if the shortie doulbes up a couple times...'

Just curious how the site in question handles it...

Very interesting thread to read....

[/ QUOTE ]

ok I have to clarify this. This is how stars works, if the person sitting out is ALL-IN and is only CALLED but not RAISED, then it is possible for him to win a show down. If he is only CALLED both hands will be shown face up and 5 cards will be dealt. BUT if someone RAISES when the person sitting out is all-in (as opposed to only calling) then the person sitting out insta-folds no matter what. Thus no showdown. So in layman terms

ok there is a person sitting out.

Someone calls- there will be a showdown that the person sitting out could win.

Anyone raises- the person sitting out will insta-fold.

[Gramps]

On Stars, an all-in SS gets automatically folded - no hanging on surviving all-ins when he stays disconnected (sounds like will most likely not reconnect).

~65/35 payout structure. Right now, you're expected equity as around 45%. If you raise to induce a push from any two from big stack and call, you're 80% to win. Now you have a 2:1 chip lead on the other big stack. Now your expected equity is around 55% the 80% of the time you win, and 0% the times you lose. You about break even, maybe even a slight loss (very rough math, +/- a bit).

On Party, where the SS can win his all-ins, the raise and hope big stack pushes any two has more merit, b/c the times you win and open up the 2:1 chip lead, you can rape the blinds for a few more orbits the times shorty survives.

If you fold, it will probably be 6305 to 2695 by the time it's HU. If you open push, it will probably 6005 to 2995 bout 90%+ of the time. And of the times SB calls, you'll still win 2/3 of the time +. I'm too lazy to do that math on how that all works out, but I'd be shocked if the push wasn't +$EV. 97.8% of the time, QQ is at least a 2:1 favorite against SB's hand.

I think, given the payout structure, shorty folding his all-in on Stars, etc. that pushing is superior to raising and hoping for an any two big stack push. My reaction would be to trap like that, but it'd probably be the worse of the two options here. Folding may actually be a better play than raising to trap, I hate to say that and would never fold, because it's the worst option 98% of the time in situations like this, but it may be 2nd out of 3 here.

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
I just lost a 5k HU on stars.

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Reminds me of the SNL skit "Bad Idea Jeans", unless your goal is to drive yourself crazy and/or go bust...