Can someone explain the health care 'crisis' to me?

[mjkidd]

TomCollins -- I don't hate doctors; I just for the most part hold their profession in contempt. I outlined some of my concerns above, but here's the cliff notes: we spend way too much on healthcare and get way too little health benefit. Everyone would be alot happier if we spent that 13% of GDP on hookers and blow.

[TomCollins]

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TomCollins -- I don't hate doctors; I just for the most part hold their profession in contempt. I outlined some of my concerns above, but here's the cliff notes: we spend way too much on healthcare and get way too little health benefit. Everyone would be alot happier if we spent that 13% of GDP on hookers and blow.

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Is there any tragic accident that lead you to this conclusion?

[vhawk01]

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I have no rebuttal to this. Would it make you feel better if I said "We're trying to get better?" I'm only a medical student, so my perspective is a bit limited, but I can assure you, we spend lots of time learning about disclosing medical error, and the reason we do this is EXACTLY because of the concerns you have raised here. They are very legitimate concerns. I guess the best I can do is assure you that I will not take this approach, and that I will in fact disclose all medical error that I INEVITABLY will make. And I can give you some assurance that my classmates will act similarly.

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I would be very interested in hearing about how you're instructed to deal with disclosure of errors. What are the attitudes like currently?

Have you read any of Atul Gawande's stuff? He's excellent, and any physcian should read both of his books. Also, if you're interested in preventative medicine and nutritional therapies, "The China Study," by T. Colin Campbell (not a physician, but a nutritionist and biochemist from Cornell) is a really excellent book.

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Yep, I've read Complications. Its pretty much required reading for med students. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The approach we are instructed to take with regards to disclosing medical error is, basically, start from the standpoint that all patients deserve to know the truth, and as much of the truth as they ask for. The education focuses on the type of language you use, which I will freely admit is as much for our benefit as their benefit.

The funny part is, so many doctors are afraid that if they say they made a mistake, they are going to be sued. However, all the studies show that almost nothing related to the actual mistake correlates very well with likelihood to be sued. Rather, it is the patient-doctor relationship that is the main driver of lawsuits. If the patient loves me and thinks I care about them, I can probably amputate the wrong leg and have it shrugged off. If they hate me, they are just waiting for the chance to slap me with a suit.

I'll reiterate that there is absolutely no implication that it is acceptable to keep error from your patients in today's medical education.

[mjkidd]

No, no tragic accident. But we spend twice as much per capita on healthcare as other industrialized countries, and we aren't any healthier than they are. If anything, we're LESS healthy. Given these data, how can American medicine be anything other than a big scam?

[TomCollins]

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No, no tragic accident. But we spend twice as much per capita on healthcare as other industrialized countries, and we aren't any healthier than they are. If anything, we're LESS healthy. Given these data, how can American medicine be anything other than a big scam?

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Because your metrics blow? People choose things that make life more enjoyable and make up for that by spending more on health care. We can afford to because we aren't stuck in a socalistic government that steals our money first.

Maybe there is more to life than being healthy?

[Richard Tanner]

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No, no tragic accident. But we spend twice as much per capita on healthcare as other industrialized countries, and we aren't any healthier than they are. If anything, we're LESS healthy. Given these data, how can American medicine be anything other than a big scam?

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Well that's what we get for enjoying our lives. We make choices, that is, we agree to take the bad (poor health) with the good (fun). Sometimes fun costs you, and we're willing to agree to those terms.

Hell we (americans) celebrate Thanksgiving by shoving food into more food, what about that screams "health conscious".

Cody

[vhawk01]

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No, no tragic accident. But we spend twice as much per capita on healthcare as other industrialized countries, and we aren't any healthier than they are. If anything, we're LESS healthy. Given these data, how can American medicine be anything other than a big scam?

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This is a really, really bad argument. American doctors aren't treating the same things other countries doctors are treating, so its absurd to claim that it is their fault that American's aren't healthier. It may still be true (its not) but this is no way to demonstrate it.

[pokerbobo]

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I don't know this for sure, but I'd assume Walmart employees have pretty good health coverage available if they want it.

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You'd be wrong.

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If you need HC insurance, maybe find another employer. Last I checked, WalMart can't force anybody to work there.

I know there are many haters of WalMart...this source seems to be one, and the info provided I would not be shocked if it was spun in a bad light.

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Look, JuntMonkey made an assumption:
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...I'd assume Walmart employees have pretty good health coverage available if they want it.

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I think this is not true, and provided a link with evidence that Wal-Mart employees do not, in fact, have "pretty good health coverage available if they want it."

If you have any specific objections to the claims made in the report, fine, let's get specific. But your dismissal of the (extensively sourced) report's authors as "haters of WalMart" and your speculation that the "info provided" might have been "spun in a bad light" mean nothing to me, nor should they to anyone else, other than as a shining example of an ad hominem argument.

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I am merely stating that I for one, will not accept info on a "I Hate WalMart" website as fact, just because it is there in print.

There are organizations that are dedicated to making WalMart seem evil, accept union labor, stay out of a certain town, it doesn't seem a stretch for me to be skeptical of a site like this.

I am not saying it is not true, I am merely saying I would like to see a more "objective" source before i accept it as fact.

I have now read thru much of the info. Stated by your source:
1) 57% of employees not covered by Walmart.
-How many are Xmas seasonal help?
-HS Kids under parents plan?
-Retired folk under previous employer plan
-Covered by spouses ins plan.

2)One in six employees has no coverage at all.
-I am guessing that these are the people who have not been employed long enuff to be eligible. (if they are eligible, and choose not to participate, who is to blame?)
-You may take issue with the 6 to 12 months required to become eligible, but I would guess employee turnover is pretty high as this is not a job most people aspire to, but rather a stepping stone to gain some marketable skills such as cash handling, basic inventory, customer svc etc. Doesnt Walmart have the right to have a new hire show stability in work before doleing out HC for said employee?

All this being said, I would never work there... but I have developed skills that make me a more marketable employee than Joe WalMart. He should do the same.

[mjkidd]

TomCollins -- America isn't all that much fatter or unhealthier than Europe. You really think that if all of the sudden we had France's medical system then Americans would be living much shorter lives? I really don't think that this is true.

[pokerbobo]

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If you need HC insurance, maybe find another employer. Last I checked, WalMart can't force anybody to work there.

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Oh yeah, the "you don't have to work there" argument. Tell that to Chicago's westside poor, minorities who would literally starve without a job at WalMart.

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So you are saying WalMart is actually saving these people's lives? ----Now what else do you want?

That was the WalMart the far left dem alderman fought against on the westside, no? Are you saying the democrat alderman would rather see people starve than allow Walmart into town?