Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game - Page 12

adios · #**111** 05-29-2007, 01:54 PM

I'll pick Kareem. Russell was a great shot blocker but I think Andy's basically right. I remember Russsll recovering the loose ball himself when he blocked a shot more than his teammates did but it's a very vague memory.

andyfox · #**112** 05-29-2007, 02:06 PM

Yup, led in assists and rebounds in the same year. Funny, with all the scoring Wilt did, when I think of him I see him in the post, holding the ball in one hand above his head, with all the players circling around him, almost Globetrotter style, like so many moons around Jupiter. In many ways, he was the Babe Ruth of his sport.

Vyse · #**113** 05-29-2007, 06:04 PM

Assani is a joke and should just be ignored. He's advocating Sabonis as a top 6 all-time center BASED ON CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION. Jesus christ.

Get out all your sabermetric stats, or just your basic general ones. KG destroys Duncan. Duncan's "team impact" or whatever you want to say to try to counter that is not remotely close enough to make up the distance.

Taraz · #**114** 05-29-2007, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Assani is a joke and should just be ignored. He's advocating Sabonis as a top 6 all-time center BASED ON CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION. Jesus christ.

Get out all your sabermetric stats, or just your basic general ones. KG destroys Duncan. Duncan's "team impact" or whatever you want to say to try to counter that is not remotely close enough to make up the distance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think the Sabonis argument is a little far-fetched, but there is no way that KG >>> Duncan.

Tell me each exact stat you're using and I'll show you how it's flawed in a general sense. Stats (as they currently are) don't give you a total picture of how good a player is.

kidcolin · #**115** 05-29-2007, 07:27 PM

The thing is, even by most advanced stats, Duncan > Garnett.

For their careers, Duncan beats Garnett in rebounds per game, points per game, and blocks per game. Going by PER, Duncan > Garnett. Going by David Berri's Wins Produced (though flawed), Garnett has a slight edge, 18.7 to 18.1 (both way near the top, and this was only through the first 65 games). By 82games's Roland Rating, Duncan > Garnett (+14.9 to +13.4).

Basketball-reference's defensive rating, Duncan > Garnett (he's second only to Ben Wallace, Garnett is 11th). Offensive rating Garnett wins, but not by much, and neither are near the top. Rebound rate, Duncan.

I'm not finding a whole lot Garnett rates better in.

MEbenhoe · #**116** 05-29-2007, 07:47 PM

The problem with comparing career stats of Duncan to Garnett is that Garnett started in the league as a 19 year old rookie having only played against HS competition, while Duncan was a 21 year old rookie having played 4 years in the ACC. Obviously Duncan was more NBA ready to begin with. If you cut off Garnett's first two seasons and compare their stats starting with the 97-98 season and going to present, then Garnett averages 22.0/12.2 to Duncan's 21.8/11.9. Take this a step further and use only 98-99 on and you have Garnett with 22.4/12.6 to Duncan's 21.9/11.9.

kidcolin · #**117** 05-29-2007, 07:57 PM

Which are very, very close. .2 pts and .3 rebounds.

Then look at minutes. While being able to play extra minutes IS a skill, IMO, on a per 40 minute basis, Duncan still comes out ahead.

KG's 2002-2004 (and I guess 2005) peak was sick sick sick. Truly outstanding. But Duncan's been consistently peak since 2001 except for his injury plagued season last year. This year he rebounded back to pretty much the same level of play as his '04-'05 levels.

MEbenhoe · #**118** 05-29-2007, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

KG's 2002-2004 (and I guess 2005) peak was sick sick sick. Truly outstanding. But Duncan's been consistently peak since 2001 except for his injury plagued season last year.

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How has Duncan been consistently peak since 2001 and Garnett hasn't when the only season when Duncan had definitely better stats was 01-02, while Garnett has had definitely better stats than Duncan 03-04, 04-05, 05-06, and 06-07. 03-04 to 06-07 Garnett has averaged 22.7/13.3 to Duncan's 20.2/11.2.

andyfox · #**119** 05-29-2007, 08:43 PM

KG has had to carry the offensive load for his team, whereas Duncan has had a better supporting cast and coach.

MEbenhoe · #**120** 05-29-2007, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KG has had to carry the offensive load for his team, whereas Duncan has had a better supporting cast and coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

wait wait, you mean Duncan winning more than KG had something to do with his way better supporting cast and coach? I am shocked by this due to the way others have been arguing. I was starting to believe maybe Duncan was the only reason the Spurs ever won a game and the rest of the players were picked up off the street.