Ftp stole my money

[MicroBob]

wow. you went through all that griping and haggling with them and didn't even realize you were rakebacked there all along?

that's ALMOST as dumb as me accidentally folding my straight-flush on the river last week (don't ask...too many damn tables).


FT's reply was pretty standard and not horribly reassuring. But at least it was speedy!!

[CCx]

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I am still doubting you at all is that you said you made the 13-14 K playing at 10/20 & 25/50 NL. However, FTPDoug says that you never played 10/20 and were a slight loser at 25/50 NL. Where did the 14 K come from? Why did you lie about the stakes you played?

[/ QUOTE ]

This question definitely needs to be answered, and/or the OP posting his FT screenname so PT users can dig up some hands.

[jlkrusty]

After reading this entire thread, it appears to me likely that EricJones knows he did something shadey--and something more than just having two accounts.

That said, FTP's policy of "wait forever" and "don't tell" is absurd. It is very, very, bad business to confiscate funds without explanation--guilty or not! Waiting two and a half months is also absurd!

FTP's fraud department needs a serious shakeup in how they are doing things. They are really hurting public opinion on FTP.

FTP's policy for their fraud department should be as follows:

1. If an account is frozen, the player must receive immediate notice

2. Accounts may not be frozen for more than 72 hours on circumstantial evidence only.

3. Accounts may not be frozen for more than 72 hours unless the player receives a detailed explanation about what is going on in the investigation.

4. In no event may a player's account be frozen for more than 1 week unless the player is given the full explanation for the seizure--i.e., the exact fraud he is being charged with.

5. Every player will have the right to defend themselves. A player that is not given specifics about what he is being charged with cannot defend himself. Thus, every player accused of fraud will be given details about the charges against him.

If Full Tilt would follow the foregoing procedure (or something similar), we would have a lot more confidence in them.

FTPDoug, what is FTP's fraud policy? Can FTP arbitrarily close and seize your funds with no explanation at all? Can FTP take forever on investigations?

Now, please don't take me wrong. EricJones is no saint. He may have deserved to have his funds confiscated. But, the rest of FTP customers also deserve a better fraud policy. Perhaps FTP could spell it out on its website. If FTP's fraud policy is really what it appears to be (i.e., confiscate funds without giving any explanation to the suspect), then I don't want to play there anymore either.

Doug, do you think FTP's fraud department could be improved?

[MicroBob]

I think these are very reasonable expectations to be palced on FTP.
2.5 months is REALLY REALLY awful.


I also think that EricJones should share his FTP account-name with the 2+2'ers here because somebody may very well have many of the HH's on him and can try to clear him somewhat on their own.

His reluctance to share his account-name with us (especially when he is extremely likely to never play there again regardless) only leads most of us to believe he is likely guilty of more than just having a 2nd account.

[4thstreetpete]

well said jlkrusty . I too have lost confidence on fulltilt through my own experiences. There are just too many of these threads pointing out fulltilt's complete lack of competence with their customer service. I'm in no way defending the OP but this is not the first time that players have felt that they've been left in the dark without any form of proper explanation.

[FTPDoug]

I'm still in the process of gathering all of the details of this particular case. I haven't abandoned this thread, I just want to make sure everything I say is correct.

To answer the questions where I actually know the answers:

His funds weren't seized because of the multiple accounts. I only brought that up to indicate that there were immediate and obvious red flags when I first started looking into the case.

I was correct in determining his username, and indeed neither account had ever played 10/20 NL. Again, this has nothing to do with the actual issue, just another eyebrow raiser.

2.5 months is a pretty inexcusably long time to wait for the conclusion of an investigation like this. I can only say that I know for a fact that we're working pretty hard on improving, which isn't to say that there still won't be certain cases that take a really long time. As an example, credit card fraudsters can be pretty sophisticated when it comes to creating a long line of launderers. It can take a while to unravel the web.

When I get the exact details of why his account(s) were frozen, I will share as much as is appropriate (which probably won't be enough for some people, but it's a pretty sensitive subject we're dealing with here). Sometime tomorrow is a good estimate of when that might happen.

Doug

[ericjones]

According to Ftpdoug I played the following:

25/50 NL, 50/100 NL and 100/200 O/8 and won money at 30/60 limit, 100/200 limit, 100/200 NL, and 25/50 PLO. Doug for the years that your websites has been around you couldn't get more represantitives in all that time? Why does pokerstars respond to emails a hour after I send em and you guys respond every 4 days?


My account name there was "rapperson" , I would like anyone thru look thru the hands and tell me if I did anything illegal.

[MicroBob]

Worth considering that even Eric has apparently not be informed of what he did.

So I don't think you just owe us an explanation.


Thanks for looking into this though Doug.

You seem very committed to FT and trying to improve the site as much as possible.

[Borgland]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for looking into this though Doug.

You seem very committed to FT and trying to improve the site as much as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah and the True Poker guy too. Even though I dont play at either they seem to be the only ones who actively come on here to help customers and seek our opinions and advice. Party sure as hell never did that.

[yad]

It really makes no difference to me whether OP was guilty of cheating or not. Either way, Full Tilt has behaved atrociously. How can we tolerate a site that will just confiscate your money with no explanation or justification whatsoever?

I certainly hope that they will investigate fraud aggressively and punish it harshly. But if they are going to investigate or punish someone, it's essential that they tell the person what the allegation is! Tons of people may have innocently or inadvertently done something that looks suspicious. If they knew what the concern was, they could at least defend themselves and present their side of the story, and prevent mistakes. Why FT wouldn't want to do this is incomprehensible to me. Obviously they don't want to reveal the algorithms they're using to detect various kinds of fishy play, but to not say what type of fishy play they're concerned about just leaves the door wide open for mistakes.