**Official uNL Microbrew thread: July(LC/NC)** - Page 112

ama0330 · #**1111** 07-09-2007, 11:04 AM

So he minraise bluffs you on a bone dry board in your first 3bet pot?

BoozeHound · #**1112** 07-09-2007, 11:07 AM

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AFAIC he never, ever folds there after minraising. Why would he minraise then fold on such a dry board?

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I'm not sure this is true. I feel like I shove sets here more than I should and villains tank and fold. I've started slowing down when I get raised on such a dry board. The only think I don't want to see (given I have a set/AA/KK/QQ) is an A or a K to kill my action. They rarely fold after a real raise as they're committed by then, although I've been noticing a fair bit of raise/folding by villains (and I can't figure it out).

SirFelixCat · #**1113** 07-09-2007, 11:07 AM

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To see if I really have a high pair or maybe try to fold my hand representing TT?

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I'm sorry bro, but I have NEVER seen this at our level. Maaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyybe if it were 2p2 vs 2p2, but I think you are 1: over thinking this WAY too much and 2: giving villain way too much credit bro.

Once villain min raises us after WE 3 bet him for the first time, I think it's time to concede it and move on. I think you're being a little results oriented here bro. Sorry, but I agree with ama here...pretty ugly push on your end after his min-raise.

corsakh · #**1114** 07-09-2007, 11:08 AM

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So he minraise bluffs you on a bone dry board in your first 3bet pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmm.. What do you call doing this with A8, a value raise?

SirFelixCat · #**1115** 07-09-2007, 11:09 AM

FWIW, the ONLY real time I'm seeing villains fold after raising, post-flop is on super-dry boards when I CB, in position, on a flop of, say 772r, and he min c/r me. Sometimes i 3bet, sometimes I muck depending on villain, regardless of my holdings. More often than not, they muck to my 3bet, but that's about the only time I really see it happening with any frequency. YMMV

SirFelixCat · #**1116** 07-09-2007, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So he minraise bluffs you on a bone dry board in your first 3bet pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmm.. What do you call doing this with A8, a value raise?

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Idiotsville and not smart enough to fold since he has a draw to 2 pr (ie. monkey speech for "the nuts").

eta: If the monkey is going to:

1) call a 3bet with A8 preflop
2) min raise with said A8 on the flop

DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS MONKEY IS GOING TO FOLD IT?!? nO [censored] WAY!

corsakh · #**1117** 07-09-2007, 11:11 AM

I am actually coming to the same conclusion more and more often.. I watched too much cardrunners and read too many posts on 2+2, so I often way overthink a situation.

BoozeHound · #**1118** 07-09-2007, 11:12 AM

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corsakh, isn't there a (kind of BS, but with some merit) theorum about this? The drier the board the more a 3-bet from a TAG is BS?

I'm not sure is play is all that terrible if he thinks you're capable of making a play at him in a CO vs Button battle.

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The theorem relates to a paired board in raised pots. In reraised pots, this is how I play JJ+ and any set in this spot. And this was my first 3bet to him, and he called with a totally nonsense hand OOP. Calling with 87s has more merit than calling with this. And then minraised me on the flop. WTF?!

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You made a good read and had the guts to follow through, I dig it.

However, this is the part of your logic I don't like. If you play strong pairs and sets this way on this board it HAS to be because you expect to get called somewhat lightly since people can't call with draws. If this is the case, why merge in a hand with no equity to your as a bluff? At least merge a hand like AK.

sightless · #**1119** 07-09-2007, 11:12 AM

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This is unfuckenbelievable. And he is a regular.
This idiot has 26% attempt to steal and its like the first time I tryed to 3bet him.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($120.40)
Hero ($56.95)
SB ($70.40)
BB ($74.80)
UTG ($50)
MP ($55.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $1.75, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, CO calls $4.25.

Flop: ($12.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO raises to $16, Hero raises to $58.95 (All-In), CO calls $34.95.

Turn: ($122.65) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($122.65) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $122.65

Results in white below: 
CO has Ad 8d.
Hero has 5c 7c (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $114.65. CO wins $8. 

I [censored] knew he did not have JJ. I knew he did not even have a ten here. God.

Send me on monkey tilt.

Oh ye, he probably thought he had Ace for an out and that he was pot committed..

[/ QUOTE ]

fold this hand after he raises flop; you have seven high and the villain just told you he likes his hand in this spot vs whatever he thinks that you are holding

ama0330 · #**1120** 07-09-2007, 11:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So he minraise bluffs you on a bone dry board in your first 3bet pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmm.. What do you call doing this with A8, a value raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you can see that his holding is totally irrelevant here?! What is his raise telling you? Cause to me, it says "I may be a drooling moron, but I sure like my hand and I'm not going anywhere"

IDK, this is just so obvious to me, I dont mean to come off as a dick here but this is just one of those spots where I can't see any other way to think about this, its black and white

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