Trickier Sit N Go Question

[ConfusedAgain]

3rd place doesn't pay the bills much in SnG's. Greatest EV is bet not call. IMHO

[TheCount212]

Pushing here is madness if I want ITM. Since the SB is also a big stack (read the question) why should I push with a big stack and a desperado behind me with KJo? Even if BB doubles up and I fold around, I have 5 hands to go before my final BB gasp.

[Austiger]

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing here is madness if I want ITM. Since the SB is also a big stack (read the question) why should I push with a big stack and a desperado behind me with KJo? Even if BB doubles up and I fold around, I have 5 hands to go before my final BB gasp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your final BB gasp will happen two hands from now, unless you plan on folding your BB with 500 left behind, and then folding your SB with 200 left behind, which would be foolish. If you fold here and BB doubles up to 1400, you'll be the shortstack and you won't be able to fold into the money.

[Eagles]

calling is by far the best option for the reasons that everyone has a said a million times. To make this intersting I think it would be what hands do you go allin with here if any?

I think the answer is probably something like QQ+ but I'm not sure if that's right.

[Josem]

Reading this thread is a bizarre experience.

a) People throw out random answers, with no understanding of the issues involved.

b) Intelligent discussion about ICM and the issues involved, especially by Citanul and ChrisV and Blackize. leaponthis, while lacking an understanding of the issues, seems to be at least coherent and thinking about it.

c) More people throw out random answers, with no understanding of the issues involved.


Some idiocy highlighted:
[ QUOTE ]
Unless I draw up a load of formulae and odds on a big fat post, then my point is invalid

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if you refuse to use mathematics to answer a mathematics question, your point is invalid. I would have thought this was self-evident.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see how you can say the sb "should" push. We dont know what cards he/she has, but i agree with your post in general.

[/ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter what the SB has. If the button limps here, I would push 100% from the SB.

If the BB folds, the button is in a crap position.

[ QUOTE ]
Also the big blind cannot fold here surely!

[/ QUOTE ]
It depends what happens.

If the button pushes, and the SB calls, it would be a fairly obvious fold by the BB.

The BB would be folding to a Button call/SB push because they'd hope the Button would call and be knocked out.

[ QUOTE ]
3rd place doesn't pay the bills much in SnG's. Greatest EV is bet not call. IMHO

[/ QUOTE ]
3rd place pays the bills in SNGs much more than 4th does.

Busting out here sucks.

[fluorescenthippo]

this thread should be 2 posts long. 2 years ago it would have been this long

[Kibby]

I'm the worst STTF person here to post and my first thought was to call.

If you want a generalization...
4 players 2 are big stacks and the SS is on the BB with <=1.5BBs and you have a medium size stack with a decent but non-premium hand, you should call.

This is a generalization and the behavior of the big stacks will inform variations along with the precise stack sizes. For example, if the big stacks are large enough and aggressive enough (you KNOW they are going to push) and your stack is small enough, you should fold even AA.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh i get it. . . I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Unless I draw up a load of formulae and odds on a big fat post, then my point is invalid. Well im sorry I have things to do with my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight. You don't want to put forth the time or the effort to even attempt to find the right answer, yet the rest of us, including some of the best STT players in the world, should respect your opinion as much as anyone's.

[dirtysanchez]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see how you can say the sb "should" push. We dont know what cards he/she has, but i agree with your post in general. Also the big blind cannot fold here surely! Maybe if the sb calls after we move all in then he might hold out and hope the sb beats us. But folding 100 with 600 committed??? scared wimpish poker in general. Like i said he may fold and be forgiven for folding if the sb calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

just as a general PSA, you and anyone who agrees w/ a single sentence in this post (excluding the last one, which pretty much outlines why pushing is bad in a simplistic way) might want to immediately quit playing sngs.

all- please if you arent willing to learn the ICM calcs behind this just trust people who have been in this spot a few hundred times?

[dirtysanchez]

[ QUOTE ]
sitting in ur armchair having a tommy tank watching Trisha. Mug!

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?