Why exactly is it bad etiquette to ask to see a losing showdown hand?

[trickyAAA]

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On a related note:

Several years ago Men the Master had a big stack when it was down to two short tables. If one player is busted they go to the final table. I forget the exact details but Men didn't call a fellow short stacked Vietnamese when he clearly had pot odds to call no matter what he held. This was controversial and I think it was heavily discussed over on the newsgroup RGP (back when RGP was good for this sort of thing)

Barry Shulman (owner/editor of Card Player) in a later column (or perhaps on RGP, certainly not here) defended Men's move as brilliant. In essence he said that Men with a big stack (and knowing how to use it) gained tremendous "steal equity" (and overall equity) by keeping the other player in and the tables short.

Sometimes decisions are tough.

~ Rick

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This play is described in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players.

[Lestat]

Now here's an area where I'm sometimes called a jerk... If I call someone they MUST show their hand before I show mine. Period. Looks of disgust, or saying, "I missed", is not good enough. Either turn over your hand and if I can beat it, I'll table mine. The other choice (if you're embarrassed), is to muck your cards and just give me the pot and I won't them up by showing mine.

Might sound rude, but I've never done anything different.

[Wongboy]

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Final 3 of an MTT

BB has 220k
SB has 30k
Button has 50k
Blinds are 8k/16k/1k

SB and BB know each other and are friendly. Button did not agree to chop earlier when both suggested it. There has been some flared tempers between Button and BB. There have been some questionable (in Button's eyes) plays between the two since 3-handed including BB checking behind on all streets in unraised pot when he flopped TPGK. There have also been two seperate occassions where BB folded to SB's push getting odds good enough for a smart player to know to call, and good enough odds for even a poor player to likely understand he needs to call.

Button folds
SB moves all-in for 30k total
BB folds

Button asks to see BB's mucked hand.

Is there a set rule? Does this change depending on venue? Is it the Floor's discretion?

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Depending on how button is playing, and the relative heads-up skill level of SB and Button, it may be correct for BB to fold any hand in this situation. Therefore, IWTSTH can not possibly establish collusion, or even poor poker play. All it does is slow down the game. In addition, if the floor asks BB why he folded KK (for example), then he forces BB to reveal information about his play style at that point in the tournament, which is clearly not fair.

I do think that the floor should have provided a better explanation, however.

[DrewOnTilt]

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Making everybody show their hands at showdown is going to cause many players to play better. They often know that they are making bad plays but comfort themselves with the knowledge that only THEY know it. Making them embarrassed in front of the table is not a good idea.

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For real, I don't see why this is so [censored] hard to understand.

[DrewOnTilt]

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Lets not forget if he misread his hand and beats you he wins
and you just screwed yourself out of that pot

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Actually this is not true. In most cardrooms the correct procedure is for the dealer to kill the hand before showing it.

[AKQJ10]

Wrong. It's quite standard for IWTSTH (by the winning player) to revive the hand.

In other cases, the dealer might "kill" the hand symbolically by touching it to the muck (although that would be senseless in this case, where the hand is most certainly live in standard rooms). You may be thinking about cases where some other player not in the hand asks to see, in which case the hand is indeed dead. RR can give you a great lecture about how the muck has no magical properties extinguishing live from the hand.