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#101
09-22-2006, 04:20 PM
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Re: RIZZULTS
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villian thought for his entire time bank and mucked it. Cuz he plays good. [/ QUOTE ] If it's correct for villain to fold here with TPTK or an overpair or other strong hands, then you must be a nit generally and you must almost never make plays like this. If you make this play more often than almost-never then it's incorrect for villain to fold a strong hand and he played bad. [/ QUOTE ] As I said before this PARTICULAR SPOT has very little to do with Degen's hand or even his image. Degen's turn move all comes down to the meaning of Villain's gaybets. [/ QUOTE ] No it doesn't. If his gaybets mean AJ/KJ/overpair or other moderately strong hands then knowing this is irrelevant if he won't ever fold these type of hands. And if he WILL fold them, and Degen WILL make this move with the equivalent of air here even semi-often, then folding to the push is bad, contrary to Degens claim that villain folded cause he plays good. Because A) his gay bets gave the strength of his hand away, and B) because he folded in a spot where he could easily have the best hand he therefore doesn't play good. So I'm not saying the play itself is necessarilly bad, but if it's good it's only because your opponent is making an easily exploitable mistake, not because he's good. [/ QUOTE ] Bad opponents won't lay down a hand. Good opponents will. Top-notch opponents will trap somebody they think raised with 66 preflop by gaybetting twice then calling the turn bluff w TPGK. But Degen said nothing about top-notch. And then he'll get paid off many times as well when he has a hand. I don't really want to get into optimal bluff frequency here. See Theory of Poker. 
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#102
09-22-2006, 04:26 PM
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Re: RIZZULTS
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villian thought for his entire time bank and mucked it. Cuz he plays good. [/ QUOTE ] If it's correct for villain to fold here with TPTK or an overpair or other strong hands, then you must be a nit generally and you must almost never make plays like this. If you make this play more often than almost-never then it's incorrect for villain to fold a strong hand and he played bad. [/ QUOTE ] As I said before this PARTICULAR SPOT has very little to do with Degen's hand or even his image. Degen's turn move all comes down to the meaning of Villain's gaybets. [/ QUOTE ] No it doesn't. If his gaybets mean AJ/KJ/overpair or other moderately strong hands then knowing this is irrelevant if he won't ever fold these type of hands. And if he WILL fold them, and Degen WILL make this move with the equivalent of air here even semi-often, then folding to the push is bad, contrary to Degens claim that villain folded cause he plays good. Because A) his gay bets gave the strength of his hand away, and B) because he folded in a spot where he could easily have the best hand he therefore doesn't play good. So I'm not saying the play itself is necessarilly bad, but if it's good it's only because your opponent is making an easily exploitable mistake, not because he's good. [/ QUOTE ] Bad opponents won't lay down a hand. Good opponents will. [/ QUOTE ] Right. But that's besides the point I made. The point is that if he's good, then his play in this hand is bad. Degen said that he folded BECAUSE he's good implying folding in this spot, against him, is good. And if it is good then Degen almost never takes this line with anything other than TT/JJ/AA. Which may be the case, but doubtful.
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#103
09-22-2006, 04:41 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Whos folding AA or KK here with 1200 chips left and like 1700 in the pot, [/ QUOTE ] Its 2830 chips in the pot but I keep my mouth shut now. Degen complains in his blog about the low limit grinders who answer here and I can understand that. [/ QUOTE ] That's just BS. Just because you're not playing at the level the hand is from doesn't mean you got nothing to add and shouldn't be taken seriously.
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#105
09-22-2006, 04:57 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
[ QUOTE ]
That's just BS. Just because you're not playing at the level the hand is from doesn't mean you got nothing to add and shouldn't be taken seriously. [/ QUOTE ] It is true that any one playing any buy-in can have something insightful to add and should be encourage to add what they think. That being said, there is a lot of crap advice given. So, I can understand complaining about the quality of advice, but not the fact that it is been given. But, more constructive than complaining, is to explain why you think it is crap advice so the people giving said crap advice and learn from their own crap advice. That make any sense?
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#106
09-22-2006, 04:58 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That's just BS. Just because you're not playing at the level the hand is from doesn't mean you got nothing to add and shouldn't be taken seriously. [/ QUOTE ] It is true that any one playing any buy-in can have something insightful to add and should be encourage to add what they think. That being said, there is a lot of crap advice given. So, I can understand complaining about the quality of advice, but not the fact that it is been given. But, more constructive than complaining, is to explain why you think it is crap advice so the people giving said crap advice and learn from their own crap advice. That make any sense? [/ QUOTE ] obv.
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#107
09-22-2006, 05:28 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
i actually browsed this entire thread because it was a post by a good player who plays high stakes....wow. i mean you guys just amaze me sometimes. Honestly, if its a 530 buy in question maybe people who dont play higher than 109s or 55s should just read and not litter the post with dozens of inane comments. If I and other high buy in players didnt have to sort through over a hundred meaningless posts before answering a question maybe there would be actual high buy-in content on this forum
And Degen, seriously, what solid 530 player is going to cold call your huge overbet out of position in level 2 here with a hand they would fold on this turn getting over 2-1? your overthinking yourself to death.
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#108
09-22-2006, 05:45 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
Degen,
What is the point of posting a hand that you feel you played correctly? Not only that but you go on to insult other posters who are generally just trying to understand why you made such moves.The simple fact is the majority of posters here are a fan of you already since you play so high, try not to belittle them. As for the hand itself it still has little logic behind it. It's not a very deep thinking hand. At no point did you ever explain what you put him on all you did was say I think my push can get him to fold the majority of his hands. Because of that and the way the hand plays, regardless of the results, it looks like over the long run imo and many other high stakes posters it is a spew.
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#109
09-22-2006, 05:57 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
[ QUOTE ]
i actually browsed this entire thread because it was a post by a good player who plays high stakes....wow. i mean you guys just amaze me sometimes. Honestly, if its a 530 buy in question maybe people who dont play higher than 109s or 55s should just read and not litter the post with dozens of inane comments. If I and other high buy in players didnt have to sort through over a hundred meaningless posts before answering a question maybe there would be actual high buy-in content on this forum And Degen, seriously, what solid 530 player is going to cold call your huge overbet out of position in level 2 here with a hand they would fold on this turn getting over 2-1? your overthinking yourself to death. [/ QUOTE ] maybe its because there isnt really that big a difference between 109s, 215s and 530s, especially when facing an unknown opponent.
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#110
09-22-2006, 06:09 PM
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Re: 530 Floating a Mid Pair
[ QUOTE ]
i actually browsed this entire thread because it was a post by a good player who plays high stakes....wow. i mean you guys just amaze me sometimes. Honestly, if its a 530 buy in question maybe people who dont play higher than 109s or 55s should just read and not litter the post with dozens of inane comments. If I and other high buy in players didnt have to sort through over a hundred meaningless posts before answering a question maybe there would be actual high buy-in content on this forum And Degen, seriously, what solid 530 player is going to cold call your huge overbet out of position in level 2 here with a hand they would fold on this turn getting over 2-1? your overthinking yourself to death. [/ QUOTE ] If this is high level content, you can keep it out of this forum. There is almost zero content in this thread from anyone. From the $530 players down the $5.50 players. This is a 100% read dependent play, but we were not given any reads. So, in essence, it is a brag post for what a brilliant play it was because it worked. There is nothing that hints that this hand was posted for discussion or content purposes. There's no way any of use can use any information in this thread to benefit our game. We don't know the reads or thought process that went into this hand. Pineapple is about the only one that added anything to this thread. But even it was based on the if's and or but's of what his little donk bets meant.
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