When you have a daughter....

[diebitter]

Thanks for sharing that Hopey. I certainly feel I've learned something from it.

[Gunny Highway]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just such a stupid, arbitrary thing to withold from her. It's something that she'll want, something that all her friends will have, and something that will make her feel like part of the group (as she'll be able to participate in the text msging).

Just because we didn't text message when we were their age doesn't mean that it isn't "important" for her to be able to do it. This shouldn't be considered as a "privilege", it's something that all kids do these days.

Pick your battles. If you aren't reasonable in the boundaries you set with your kids, they won't respect you. At which point they'll simply start doing everything behind your back without asking first, because they can't expect you to react rationally to their requests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Withholding luxuries from your kids is stupid. They should have every senseless, expensive thing they want.

[4_2_it]

Hopey,

Your post was the best one so far in this thread. IMO, a good parent cannot be to authoritative nor can he be their child's best friend. You have to strike a balance. I am still figuring out how to do that.

When my daughter does something that doesn't please me or her mother, we talk about it and don't discuss punishment (which probably drives her nuts) until we both agree that she was wrong. I haven't reversed a decision yet, but I have given her a much milder punishment if she demonstrates some remorse and acknowledges her actions.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]

Right. Withholding luxuries from your kids is stupid. They should have every senseless, expensive thing they want.

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That's not what I wrote. My point is that so many kids have cell phones with text messaging these days that it is no longer considered as a luxury. We can't appreciate this fact because cell phones weren't nearly as prevalent when we were 13-14 years old (I'm 31, btw).

All I'm saying is that if your daughter is the *only* kid amongst her friends who isn't able to text message with them, she'll resent you a little for it. If the only reason you provide to her is "You don't need it. I didn't have one at your age and I turned out fine", she'll think you're totally out of touch.

If anything, I think a cell phone is a good way to teach your kids some responsibility and money management. Allow them a certain number of hours' use per month, and if they go over that amount, they either pay the difference or lose the phone. Showing enough trust in them will go along way in them trusting you in return.

If they break your trust by going way over their minutes, then they lose the phone. However, at least you showed enough trust in them to be able to succeed or fail on their own, rather than you telling them that they would have failed anyway, so you're not going to even let them try.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
Hopey,

Your post was the best one so far in this thread. IMO, a good parent cannot be to authoritative nor can he be their child's best friend. You have to strike a balance. I am still figuring out how to do that.

When my daughter does something that doesn't please me or her mother, we talk about it and don't discuss punishment (which probably drives her nuts) until we both agree that she was wrong. I haven't reversed a decision yet, but I have given her a much milder punishment if she demonstrates some remorse and acknowledges her actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like you are building a very solid relationship with your daughter. She will hopefully grow up to respect you, as you have shown her a great deal of respect to her.

When I was a kid, my punishments were random and inconsistent, and I never got an explanation. Sometimes I wasn't even entirely sure what I did wrong. If I dared try to defend the actions that got me punished (ie. if I did something wrong by accident rather than wilfully), my punishment was increased.

Eventually this type of "parenting" stops working, believe me. Your kids just learn to avoid you, and/or cover their tracks.

[Gunny Highway]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Right. Withholding luxuries from your kids is stupid. They should have every senseless, expensive thing they want.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what I wrote. My point is that so many kids have cell phones with text messaging these days that it is no longer considered as a luxury. We can't appreciate this fact because cell phones weren't nearly as prevalent when we were 13-14 years old (I'm 31, btw).

All I'm saying is that if your daughter is the *only* kid amongst her friends who isn't able to text message with them, she'll resent you a little for it. If the only reason you provide to her is "You don't need it. I didn't have one at your age and I turned out fine", she'll think you're totally out of touch.

If anything, I think a cell phone is a good way to teach your kids some responsibility and money management. Allow them a certain number of hours' use per month, and if they go over that amount, they either pay the difference or lose the phone. Showing enough trust in them will go along way in them trusting you in return.

If they break your trust by going way over their minutes, then they lose the phone. However, at least you showed enough trust in them to be able to succeed or fail on their own, rather than you telling them that they would have failed anyway, so you're not going to even let them try.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether teenagers view it as a luxury or not does not mean it isn't one. In my opinion, kids that consider cell phones a necessity need a kick in the ass. Their thinking is out of whack and someone needs to start teaching them what true necessities are or they'll continue to grow up with priorities and spending habits that are completely out of whack. If you think a phone is good for teaching responsibility, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that if it's your reason. If you're giving it to her just because the other kids have them, that's another story. And, yes, teenagers will find reasons to resent you. If you continually use "I don't want her to resent me" as a factor in your decision making with regard to teenagers, then you're going to be broke, have spoiled kids, and STILL end up resented.

edit: by the way, I agree with most of what you're saying. you have to give them a chance to be responsible. you have to give them a chance to succeed and to fail. then you have to help them figure out why they did either way. too many parents take the easy way out. they do what they do because it's easiest for them,not because it's best for the kid. i'm not really saying the kid shouldn't have a phone, just make sure the reasons are the right ones.

[2Fast]

yikes - note to self - don't be obsessive/dictatorial parent....

[4_2_it]

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Eventually this type of "parenting" stops working, believe me. Your kids just learn to avoid you, and/or cover their tracks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more. That type of parenting is only effective until about age 4. I am glad that you seem to recognize it for what it was and will break the cycle when rearing your kids.

[Hopey]

I appreciate the points that you made, and I agree that there's a fine balance between giving your kids "luxuries" and creating a spoiled brat.

I think the secret is that you have to make your kids appreciate the things that you give them. As I said in my previous post, the cell phone wouldn't be given with no strings attached -- they'd have to follow the rules about its use or they'd lose it. Hopefully they'd learn that if they are mature and responsible with the privileges that you allow them, that you will be more likely to trust them in future.

I'm also not saying that you should go out and buy the phone for your kid simply because she asks for it. It's definitely something that's given as a birthday/Christmas gift, or something that's given as a reward for getting good grades. After that, the phone is a "toy" for your kid, but a toy that helps teach responsibility.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Eventually this type of "parenting" stops working, believe me. Your kids just learn to avoid you, and/or cover their tracks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more. That type of parenting is only effective until about age 4. I am glad that you seem to recognize it for what it was and will break the cycle when rearing your kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

My father wasn't a monster -- he did work hard for his family, coached my Little League teams, took us on family vacations, etc... It was his over-protectiveness / disciplining style / lack of empathy / lack of respect for our opinions / that caused us all to rebel.

I still have a relationship with him, just not a very close one.

My fiancee is quite convinced that I'll be nothing like my father when it comes to raising our kids. We're completely different people, and I'm one to learn from others' mistakes.