I just played some 25nl full ring on party - Page 10

Isura · #91 03-17-2006, 06:28 PM

Pretty good post. But point 5) is way off, and really bad advice.

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5) I'm not folding to a re-raise. Why? Like the 86 hand you mentioned, this would be a really BAD fold. If I'm going to raise a hand like that OOP, and someone re-raises me in position, I have to call if I want to continue to apply the pressure to my opponents. If I fold, I'm saying - go ahead and come over the top of me and I'll fold. By calling, even if I don't like it, I'm continuing to keep them guessing because they have nearly NO idea what I'm calling with. If I happen to hit two pair on that flop or something, I'm likely stacking off against his over pair.

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You apply pressure by betting and raising, not by calling. Who is applying pressure in this spot? It's obviously the guy who is reraising, you calling is not applying pressure. He is making YOU hit a flop to continue in the hand. Initiative is huge in NL, and he is taking that away from you. You apply pressure by reraising, or you fold and wait for a better spot to put them to the test. If you fold a few times, players will start playing back at you light. That's exactly what you want from a lag style isn't it? LAG style in isolation is useless, you should use that image to tighten up and change gears.

FreakDaddy · #92 03-17-2006, 06:34 PM

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EX2:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($24.85)
MP1 ($40.62)
MP2 ($24.65)
MP3 ($70.30)
CO ($27.68)
Button ($37)
SB ($34.30)
BB ($52)
UTG ($8.24)
UTG+1 ($25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, 4 folds.

Flop: ($4.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP3 raises to $10, Hero calls $17.85 (All-In), MP3 calls $12.85.

Turn: ($50.05) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.05) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $50.05

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
MP3 has As Th (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $50.05. 

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This could have easily been a chump slowplaying AA or KK. You could easily be +$50 instead of +$100.

And the NL25 guys do not call all-in with TPTK as much as you may think from this small sample size.

Good session. Don't think too much into it. Don't overexcite your brother.

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When you play a Laggish style it's similar to a chess game. There is the beginning stages, the middle game, and finally the end game. At this stage of the game I was confident in my hand. Could he have AA or KK? Yes. Did I feel confident he would go to the felt with a worse hand at this point? ABSOLUTELY. Him making this play was BECAUSE of my previous actions.

You guys that are saying I made bad calls and bad plays, really aren't grasping what's occuring here.

FreakDaddy · #93 03-17-2006, 06:39 PM

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I think there's a vocal minority that doesn't appreciate it. Maybe because as typical 25NL players we feel belittled.

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Like I said in another post on this thread, it was late when I initally posted this and I didn't consider the psychological assault that some particular people would take it as. I also didn't consider this a great LAG session. I was more amazed at how bad my session went, yet I still ended up nearly 4 buy-ins. That's what I was TRYING to share, with the thought of posting the session, and perhaps future sessions for discussion.

I don't consider myself the best player, but I know how to beat these games and I don't mind sharing that information with others.

djoyce003 · #94 03-17-2006, 06:42 PM

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I'm curious about this item. You're main point is you are trying to induce them to bet at you. Wouldn't laying down to a reraise also do this? Wouldn't this encourage them to come over the top at you more?

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yes, but you want them to come over the top of you after the flop after they give you a chance to hit something with your random hand against their big one. You don't want them reraising you big preflop because it nukes your implied odds.....ideally what you want is the guy to get AA and try to trick you and just smoothcall, and then flop 2 pair or something against it.

If someone is playing real lag one of the good ways to hurt them is to reraise them big preflop with a pretty wide range and isolate their hand which is probably worse than yours.

FreakDaddy · #95 03-17-2006, 06:50 PM

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I'm curious about this item. You're main point is you are trying to induce them to bet at you. Wouldn't laying down to a reraise also do this? Wouldn't this encourage them to come over the top at you more?

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yes, but you want them to come over the top of you after the flop after they give you a chance to hit something with your random hand against their big one. You don't want them reraising you big preflop because it nukes your implied odds.....ideally what you want is the guy to get AA and try to trick you and just smoothcall, and then flop 2 pair or something against it.

If someone is playing real lag one of the good ways to hurt them is to reraise them big preflop with a pretty wide range and isolate their hand which is probably worse than yours.

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Exactely, that's what I meant by saying that I want to see flops. I'm playing for the implied odds, not whether my hand is a fav. pre-flop. That's exactely how you induce them to slip is that they begin to get "sneaky" on you. You have to recognize when this part of the game has begun and adjust accordingly.

That's probably a good topic for another thread. How to make the proper adjustments against LAGs. One of the ways is to come back over the top(like dj said) with a slightly wider range of hands than normal, especially when you have position, and apply the pressure back on them.

4_2_it · #96 03-17-2006, 06:56 PM

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Why do you think the statement that 100PTB/100 is sustainable upsets so many people that they feel the need to respond, rant, etc...? If they truely knew it was absurd, they really don't need to say anything. Just laugh at me and call me an idiot to themselves.
(Can't wait for the post that says that's what I was doing). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Nobody is upset. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you insist the earth is flat, er I mean 100PTBB/100 is sustainable. Insulting people who call bs on something this obvious doesn't help you make your case.

I keep coming to thread hoping to learn something. I guess I will head back to OOT.

FreakDaddy · #97 03-17-2006, 07:06 PM

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Nobody is upset. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you insist the earth is flat, er I mean 100PTBB/100 is sustainable. Insulting people who call bs on something this obvious doesn't help you make your case.

I keep coming to thread hoping to learn something. I guess I will head back to OOT.

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Who am I insulting who calls "bs"? Wrong or right, I think what I'm saying is possible, but I REALLY don't want to debate it because it's an obvious moot point.

I was hoping by posting the session that there would be disccussion about the hands, not a continued onslaught of newbies saying I'm stupid.

4_2_it · #98 03-17-2006, 07:39 PM

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Who am I insulting who calls "bs"? Wrong or right, I think what I'm saying is possible, but I REALLY don't want to debate it because it's an obvious moot point.

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It's not a moot point and it's easily proven or disproven. pzhon has issued a challenge that you laughed at,but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Calling me a noob doesn't further your argument or make your claim any less ludicrous. We are calling you out because you are the Harold Hill of SSNL.

Please go back to pestering El Diablo and his crew in the HSNL forum. From what I see in this post, you have little of value to offer here.

FreakDaddy · #99 03-17-2006, 07:46 PM

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Who am I insulting who calls "bs"? Wrong or right, I think what I'm saying is possible, but I REALLY don't want to debate it because it's an obvious moot point.

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It's not a moot point and it's easily proven or disproven. pzhon has issued a challenge that you laughed at,but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Calling me a noob doesn't further your argument or make your claim any less ludicrous. We are calling you out because you are the Harold Hill of SSNL.

Please go back to pestering El Diablo and his crew in the HSNL forum. From what I see in this post, you have little of value to offer here.

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I'd suggest drinking some tea, kicking off your shoes and taking some deep breaths. I never called you or anyone here a noob. The fact that twice you've said I've insulted you means you are reading something that isn't there, which is quite curious don't you think?

I stated very clearly that I have no interest in "proving" my statement, for it's not the point of my post.

4_2_it · #**100** 03-17-2006, 07:52 PM

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I never called you or anyone here a noob. The fact that twice you've said I've insulted you means you are reading something that isn't there, which is quite curious don't you think?

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from your last post:

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I was hoping by posting the session that there would be disccussion about the hands, not a continued onslaught of newbies saying I'm stupid.

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I've leave it to others to decide who's right here.